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Trailer Suspension Question

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jbyers
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Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:57 pm

I just noticed something about the attachment being different from one side of the trailer to the other where the rear of each spring attaches to the frame of the trailer.

It's a single axle 1959 trailer carrying my 1958 Cavalier.

My questions are:

Does this look like a concern?

Which one is correct?

Should I fix it or just let it go?

Should I try to fix it myself or take it to a trailer/suspension place?

Thanks in advance,
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right side of trailer
IMG_1948.JPG
left side of trailer

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Chad Durren
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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by Chad Durren » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:09 pm

Looks like they are attached the same. The left side just looks to be more compressed than the right side. Nothing too complicated about leaf springs, adjust them so the boat sits level. The bolts could be loose or the boat just settled on the trailer unevenly over the years. Easier to adjust when the boat is off the trailer.
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:26 pm

You're correct Chad. There is a slot cut in the cross member that stops the inboard bracket from swinging too far to the rear. The left one is all the way into the slot, but as you can see, the right one is not. I'm not sure which position is more correct. I guess I could jack up the left side of the frame and see if the bracket drops down and if so see where it returns too when I lower the jack.

Of course it could be that one of the springs has lost it's compression over the years and maybe that could be the issue?

I guess I'll mess with it and see.

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jim g » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:01 pm

Top picture is correct.

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:31 pm

Thanks Jim...........

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by bflaherty » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:28 pm

Looks like its time to consider new springs... the left side appears to have lost almost all its camber as it is sitting almost flat.

The bigger issue you may notice after a few hundred miles, is uneven tire wear as the axle is no longer square to the trailer. Typically the front mount is fixed to trailer and the rear can pivot. But if only one side pivots back then the axle actually rotates in relation to the trailer frame and you may notice it not tracking straight anymore...

West of the Mississippi, the best shop is Six Robblees. They have well trained staff and keep most common trailer chassis parts in stock! I had to upgrade the springs on our trailer due to our 1969 Cavalier ski boat being quite heavy for its size. Really easy job to do at home and when you buy new ones you can change stiffness for either more capacity or softer ride..
Brian Flaherty
1969 Chris-Craft Cavalier 17 Ski Boat "TUPPERWARE"

"You'll never discover great lands, with your feet planted in the sand"

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by drrot » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:04 am

bflaherty wrote:Looks like its time to consider new springs... the left side appears to have lost almost all its camber as it is sitting almost flat.

The bigger issue you may notice after a few hundred miles, is uneven tire wear as the axle is no longer square to the trailer. Typically the front mount is fixed to trailer and the rear can pivot. But if only one side pivots back then the axle actually rotates in relation to the trailer frame and you may notice it not tracking straight anymore...

West of the Mississippi, the best shop is Six Robblees. They have well trained staff and keep most common trailer chassis parts in stock! I had to upgrade the springs on our trailer due to our 1969 Cavalier ski boat being quite heavy for its size. Really easy job to do at home and when you buy new ones you can change stiffness for either more capacity or softer ride..

Been to Six Robblees in Spokane after trailer issues on the way to the annual meeting in Idaho. Had everything needed at reasonable prices :)
Jim Staib
www.finewoodboats.com


1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:50 pm

Thanks guys. I figured one spring was done for, I just didn't know what to look for. But hey, what's ONE more project??? :mrgreen:

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:26 pm

OK, looking at these springs and knowing neither one is likely to be the same length they where when new, I am trying to figure out the correct length to buy for replacements. With the trailer jacked up taking the weight off the springs and the shackle hangers in the rear of the springs hanging straight down, the measurement between bushing centers is about 34 inches.

When I look at people who sell boat leaf springs, none of them are nearly that long. Also the springs on the trailer are SEVEN leaves, which seems like severe overkill for a 15 foot boat.

Am I looking at having to buy car leaf springs for this trailer?

Also, what weight capacity would be sufficient? I don't see anything on the axle indicating what it is rated for?

Thanks in advance,

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:39 pm

OK, I am hoping for some guidance here. I measured the location of the axle on the trailer. From my research, a 17 foot trailer should have the axle about 8' 8" back from the tongue of the trailer. Mine is FOURTEEN feet back. That sure explains the heavy weight on the tongue when you try to lift it by hand.

My springs should be about 35 inches long to have the rear shackle hangers at the preferred angle. I have checked around and there are no two eyed leaf springs that long unless you find one intended for a car or have them custom made which is Expensive.

The good news is that the front and back shackle brackets are fully adjustable along the frame of the trailer in 2 inch increments. The bad news is if I move the front shackle bracket forward to try to establish a more desireable axle location, it will rest on the side rail of the trailer that starts to taper in towards the front of the trailer......... not good.

This leaves me thinking my best course of action is to buy shorter leaf springs in a common length and move the rear shackle brackets forward (about6-8 inches to leave me with a 25-27 inch long leaf spring. That will move the axle forward about 3-4 inches which is still way short of the ideal location, but a very affordable solution.

Can anyone tell me if my logic is correct here???

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Doug P
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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by Doug P » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:16 pm

HOW ABOUT A PICTURE OF THE BOAT ON THE TRAILER. MY THOUGHTS WERE TO HAVE THE ENGINE WEIGHT OVER THE AXLE

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:09 pm

It looks to me that the center of the engine is actually a little bit forward of the axle. Of course the way the trailer is set up without a winch and a stop, it allows quite a bit of discretion regarding how far forward you can move the boat. I would like to move the boat a little more forward so that the rear bunks of the trailer are closer to the transom of the boat.
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Doug P
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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by Doug P » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:41 pm

it looks to me that the axle should come back another foot to compensate for fuel and tranny weight or the boat forward (can you show pict of complete trailer?. I can't remember what the weight ratio should be on the tounge. (10-1 or 200 lbs)

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:51 pm

I'll try to get a better picture tomorrow, but the boat/trailer is in the garage, so the angle will be difficult. I want to move the boat forward if I can, maybe a foot.

I could move the axle back as well, just not forward. There is a lot of weight on the tongue already however but I have never measured it.

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:02 pm

Here's a ballpark figure for tongue to load ratio.......

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-part ... weight.htm

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Doug P
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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by Doug P » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:15 am

Hell. I'll trade you the trailer I have for a 17' for those hubcaps....
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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:59 am

Do you deliver Doug??? These have turned out to be devil hubcaps. I wish they had never come into my life. :evil:

If you really want a pair though, make me an offer. I've got some to spare...............

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:07 pm

Hey Doug, here are some pictures. It's hard to see a lot of detail since it was getting dark at the time.

I would like to move the boat forward a little to try to get the rear bunks under the edge of the transom. I can't tell from looking if it will actually ride well on the bunks further forward. It could be that the boat is about as far up as it will go.

What do you think?
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Doug P
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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by Doug P » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:59 pm

I would think you have 12-18" to go forward if that tape is any indication, assuming you have a stop.

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:10 pm

Thanks Doug. The tape is covering the carpeted bunks. I am just not able to visualize the contour of the bottom of the boat as it would fit hopefully flush against the bunks, front to back, as it does now. I don't want to create a situation where a lot of weight is concentrated on an isolated section of a bunk.

I do plan of putting a stop of some sort on the trailer.

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:12 pm

I hope you are correct because 12-18 inches is about what I need to bring the back bunks just under the transom.

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Doug P
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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by Doug P » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:19 pm

The bunks should flex a bit to follow the shape of the hull

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:23 am

Thanks Doug. I shall see...........

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by bflaherty » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:46 am

If you go through with moving the boat forward on trailer you will want to move the axle forward as well. There is no fixed rule for distance from tongue to axle for any trailer... It is more important that you have proper balance. You want your tongue weight to be 10%-15% of total package weight. Typically with these direct drive boats that usually has the axle just behind engine centerline.

As for measuring your spring length, you don't need to measure the spring at all. You measure the distance between the fixed mounts. Then you decide what capacity spring you need and that determines the curvature and number of leafs.

Good luck!
Brian Flaherty
1969 Chris-Craft Cavalier 17 Ski Boat "TUPPERWARE"

"You'll never discover great lands, with your feet planted in the sand"

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:20 pm

Thanks Brian,

I had planned to move the axle slightly forward if for no other reason than to shorten the length of the replacement springs because finding a spring the length of these on the trailer is almost impossible. I am limited in the amount I can move forward because the front mounting shackles are as far forward as they can go without resting on the part of the trailer frame that starts slanting in towards the tongue. I can only move the rear shackles up closer to the front ones and then probably no more than 4-6 inches without creating too short a distance between the front and rear shackles.

I think my first step now before doing anything is to get an accurate weight at the tongue and see if it falls within the 10-15% range as you noted. Then I will know about where the boat should rest on the trailer.

Thanks again.............

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by bflaherty » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:23 pm

I would suggest getting the boat placed where you want it. Then determine what trailer mods need to be done around it.

I bought an old used Vanson trailer that was originally setup for an I/O style, 19' boat. In order to get our 17' direct drive boat to sit properly I added 38" to the tail, took 36" off the front and added a 4x4 square tube as a tongue... Now I have the best towing trailer I have ever seen, and it is entirely custom fit to the hull shape of our boat... Is this overkill? YOU BET IT IS!! But trailering is not an area I am willing to compromise on due to the potential for disaster.
Brian Flaherty
1969 Chris-Craft Cavalier 17 Ski Boat "TUPPERWARE"

"You'll never discover great lands, with your feet planted in the sand"

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:20 pm

Thanks BF........ agreed

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by bflaherty » Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:06 pm

Here is a link to my Facebook album of all the work we did with my trailer... Gives an idea of what can be done fairly easily to get a perfect fit.
https://www.facebook.com/bflaherty3632/ ... 0686899395
Brian Flaherty
1969 Chris-Craft Cavalier 17 Ski Boat "TUPPERWARE"

"You'll never discover great lands, with your feet planted in the sand"

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Doug P
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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by Doug P » Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:25 pm

bflaherty wrote:Here is a link to my Facebook album of all the work we did with my trailer... Gives an idea of what can be done fairly easily to get a perfect fit.
https://www.facebook.com/bflaherty3632/ ... 0686899395
Brian....Link may be gone

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Re: Trailer Suspension Question

Post by jbyers » Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:32 pm

It's not opening for me either............ :cry:

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