Argentine runabout project

mfine · Post by **mfine** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:02 pm

It takes many hours for the wood to absorb significant moisture. You can put it in the water for 20 minutes to see what you have and in a week or so it will be just as dry as it was before you plop it in. Especially if you have a heated shop in the winter, where humidity can hit single digits. If it doesn't leak much, CPES it to slow any absorption and then caulk the leaky spots with something soft and go boatin'.

The limber hole thing is a bit baffling. The guys who built it must have been damn confident in their bottom building skills. But even then, doesn't it ever rain in Argentina? I get tons of water in my boats from rain, spray, dripping wet skiers etc. which is why even the fiberglass boats don't have perfectly dry bilges beyond the reach of the pumps. That is just weird unless maybe it leaks so bad that all the sections self drain when you pull it out of the water?

You could go with small holes and keep the bilge free of leaves and debris, or perhaps get a case of bilge pumps and put one in each section. Or, you could fill up each section so there is no room for water. Something like a urethane foam would also seal the boat from the inside and provide safety flotation, but I would have the same rot concerns as with the fiberglass.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:09 pm

Jim g....yes that is the way to do it...but seriously...I am NOT going there...boat does not need or deserve that trauma. I also don't know the exact construction situation. Though clearly a 50's or 60's STYLE...rumor has it this boat was built in the mid 1970's. If so, she may have something other than canvas between layers? Maybe 5200 for all I know???
I can not envision "going there"....
thanks,

John in Va.

Doug P · Post by **Doug P** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Hey John. Do you see that TV commercial of that spray-on leak stopper or you could fill the bilge with radiator stop leak. Or how about that pressure sensitive roofing butyl rubber.

Doug

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:48 am

naw doug, I am still leaning toward the bathroom stall material.

john in Va.

jim g · Post by **jim g** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:05 pm

I would suggest the same thing mfine suggested float the boat and see how bad it leaks or you could use a hole saw and take a core sample out of the bottom and see how the bottom was put together. I had to take a core sample on a boat that a customer bought that was supposed to have a 5200 bottom. They had taken the bottom off and put new plywood and planks on it. Then put 5200 in the seams. Leaks like an original bottom intill it swells up. The sample showed nothing between the planks and the inner bottom. You can drill it and put in a drain plug or put a block in the hull and epoxy the core sample back in.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:05 pm

Jim g: OR, I can just pull out the thru hull to the water pump.

I have been advised at the Reedville show, talking to sevaral of the group, that putting it in, now that it is totally cleared out of interior stuff, would be smart....I know that. But wait for it to dry out to its current state should she leak badly...is a concern.
Keep it the ideas/comments coming.
Many thanks to all
John in Va.

Doug P · Post by **Doug P** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:19 pm

John, Bronze it and put it on your mantle.

jim g · Post by **jim g** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:18 pm

The wood will not absorb water by putting it in the water for a few minutes. If it did you could swell your boat up in an hour. It will be completely dry again in a week.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:21 pm

Yes, Jim, that is surely so. I have a bunch more cleaning of dried oil and debris to do on the inside of the hull...don't want that to get wet and down in hard to reach crannies, though it might help!@!!!
I think putting her in, on the trailer, is winning out in this blog discussion and in my mind.
Many thanks to all.
Keep the advice rolling.

John in Va.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:15 pm

Toxic degreasers UGGGGh! I have tried two products, Zeb and greased lightnig...both, as warned on the label, make my throat close and really seem toxic.
I have to decrease the interior bottom planking..
SUGGEST STUFF TO USE PLEASE>

thanks,

John in Va.

Captain Nemo · Post by **Captain Nemo** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:33 pm

Hi John,
Zep makes a citrus degeaser, it works really well. We use it at work to get tar and blacktop off the dump trucks. It smells just like oranges

.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:52 pm

This no limber holes is a big deal. Maybe that is the way things were done in Argentina, but it speaks to the glassing the bottom quandry. This bilge area is really just a lot of individual water trapping cavities...about 4.5 X 10 inch grid of them...the space between each rib (about 10") and the space apart of each bottom batten (4.5" or so)...maybe they just run a boat until it gets to the bilge pump and when she swells it is less and less a problem..but this boat could hold many many gallons of water before the first one made it forward to the bilge pump location, or to the drain hole in the transom. Heck you can't hope to drain her even on the trailer...and there is zero rot in her???? Maybe they just left the bottom alone (as most of your purist insist I do) and let the water drain out the cracks???? Interesting. Could they have just let is slosh around until it got to the pump? No way.
Only pump was in the forefoot, sure I can put an additional one in the stern...but not much help even then???? Any one ever see or deal with this sort of thing? John in Va.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:43 am

the argentine boat is amazingly like the interior pics that Don Ayers shows in his recent post about the 283 installation. Exact same sort of construction?????

John in Va.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:11 pm

Trying to upload a couple of pix from the bilge cleaning, endless job. After looking at the pic of Don's Riva bilge I am tempted to call all of my work
"...wooden boat restoraton "for the rest of us"..sort of like Good Old Boat Magazine!!
That black stuff is old paint under the oil and etc. Bilge seems to originally have been light blue...much like the blue in the Argentine flag???....then last coat was bilbecoat white...I am going back with grey...one of these distant days.

John in Va.

63constellation · Post by **63constellation** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:38 pm

Guess the Simple Green was the winner.It's good stuff.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:54 pm

yes David, that simple green works OK but it is strong stuff...don't want to breath it either.
ALSO: you guys might note the interesting way the steering cable is routed in a groove in the side of the engine stringers. this is neat. They thus run directly back to that pulley that is let into the stringer at precisely the right location to make the cable ride dead center in the rudder quadrant.
Up front under the deck the steering is first a bike chian affair, the sprocket on the steering shaft and then the aircraft cables attach to the ends of the chain. Never seen this exact format before. Cool.
John in Va.

cenger · Post by **cenger** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:56 am

John, tHere is a great article in the September issue of Wooden Boat on the Vaitses Method (pg64). I was a skeptic of DIY glassing of a wooden boat but after reading the article I realize it can work if done properly. PM me if you don't have access to the article and I will copy it and email to you.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:32 pm

yes, got that article, still up in the air about what to do, cleaning is going slow now...up in the underdeck area and my old bones are hurting....plus the smell of the cleaners is a rough.

May start brushing on some paint in a few weeks.

Thanks for the info on the Vaites system...

John in Va.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:30 pm

Here are some pix after exhaustive cleaning of the bilge and first coat of paint...plus some pix of the boat....this is one sweet looking shape if I do say so myself.
On the interior pix you can see the steering quadrant and the lines running up to the chain and spocket behind the dash....also the GAZILLION rivets in her planking and bottom. Next will be to reinforce a few spots along the engine stringer and etc.
That rudder quadrant is one of the few store bought features, and what a neat one at that!...this one off boat continues to amaze me. Also...the glassing of the bottom idea is still debatable...but I do plan, as poor suggestions on this post, to run her into the pond for a few minutes just to see how she leaks. If she sits on her lines as pictured, she will be hot looking in the water!
John in Va.

Doug P · Post by **Doug P** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:28 pm

Looks good....A couple of questions.
The high waterline, do you think that is indicative of the weight, you think the bilge material is mahogany, or is it made from a really heavy, hard native Argentinian wood that will not swell.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:27 am

Doug, I do think the water line must be indicative of the weight. this boat is not quite 16' and the flathead with the paragon are very heavy. ??
I have never seen this boat in the water...and putting it in briefly to see how it leaks will do nothing to confirm the waterline since the engine and all else will still be out of her.
As to the wood: some guy told me he thought it was "spanish cedar".....said that was one of the gazillion types of south american "mahogany"...Just don't really know. ?? Will be interesting.
Thanks for your continued interest and comments.
John in va.

Doug P · Post by **Doug P** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:13 am

Cedrela -spanish cedar, is south American mahogany and many prewar CC's were made from "Spanish Cedar".
I have a good friend who is a forensic scientist that specializes in wood. If you can remove a small sliver, he can identify it.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:27 pm

yes Doug that would be great! There are multiple woods used in this boat, but the hull structure is but one type I think.
There is also wood that we would swear in the USA is walnut...used for a few place....support sticks for the flooring and etc. I will check this out and see if I can find a piece. That would be interesting.
Many thanks!
John in Va.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:17 pm

Well it is time for a winter update on the Argentine Runabout project.
Engine is totally rebuilt, see pic.
Friends on this site have been most helpful.
Some of the done stuff: Hull done, bottom painted and etc, new steering cables, new fuel tank, tremendous cleaning and repaint required on inside of hull...done. New parts abound on engine: she is 12 volt on a 1941 flathead truck engine, Argentine, all internals redone plus new starter, alt., carb redone, fuel pump new. Friend Jim Martin in Maine, from this site, has just saved my butt by finding the impellors for and repairing the original Johnson pump or Jabsco water pump. This will allow for a seamless reinstallation of all the cooling pump arrangement......that is huge plus.
More to follow, comments welcome.

John in Va

Chad Durren · Post by **Chad Durren** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:26 pm

The boat and the engine are looking great! Can't wait to see them reunited and running on the water. Looks like you are getting close.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:17 am

Thanks Chad,

This has been a slow process, all the Argentine modifications and complications have been problematic.

In truth I have not really had time to devote to this project until this winter...so I hope to move forward now.

You guys may recall that my rebuild was necessitated by water in the oil. The block pressure tested ok as did the manifolds, but as pointed out to me yesterday...pressure testing manifolds is usually a block some stuff off and spray with soapy water kind of investigation....not a true "is it holding pressure" sort of test.

My quandary now is whether or not to just put the engine directly into the boat and hope that the rebuild has corrected the problem, or go through lots of prep work and time to set it up and run it on the trailer as before...check the oil...then install???

Without doubt I will have to pull this engine in and out of the boat a few times just to get stuff aligned again and etc....so maybe just put it in and run it off the pickup pump and not the garden hose bypassing the pump as previous???

Can't wait to fire that sucker up though! She has about 4 hours run time at the rebuild shop....but that was with an automotive radiator setup for cooling...not marine manifolds and pump.

Will post more pics, thanks to all....

John in Va.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:31 pm

Saved by the internet!
So I am doing post rebuild reassembly and it is exhaust manifold time for the flathead.
Well some manifold studs seem stripped/loose.....I am looking to helicoil or worse.....go on the net READ
hotrod guys mention offhand:
the holes in the block for mounting at the FORWARD most exhaust portal are 7/16 coarse thread....all the rest, middle and rear portals require the normal 3/8 coarse in the block (all end up 3/8 fine on the outer end)....but without this stumbled upon info I would have been in deep trouble.
Henry Ford must have had some extra 7/16 studs from Model A days....or the engineers won on the front studs and the accountants on the rest.
Ya neva know....
John in Va.

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:56 pm

Got all that manifold stuff on today...went OK!!!

Install engine is not far off....

John in Va.

RRGadow · Post by **RRGadow** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:38 pm

Sounds like your having fun! Is she going to be ready for spring?

jfrprops · Post by **jfrprops** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:06 pm

I would say summer Ryan.

Lots still to do.

Hope to see you soon,

John in Va.

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