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Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

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Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Moosemeat » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:23 am

My 1947 CC U-18 is in the shop for some finish work. While it gets its beauty treatment, this is a good time to either spruce up or replace my older, double axle trailer. PA regulations and a couple of close calls on the I-state have convinced me that the trailer needs brakes, although lots of my clubmates tell me it doesn't. It also need a better nose stop as the current one sometimes scuffs up the finish.
With all the work that needs to be done, the restorer tells me that a new trailer makes sense as the incumbent is no spring chicken and a new one with surge brakes and better bunks will cost about the same or less than an extensive retrofit. He suggests a single axle rig, as they are cheaper, easier to back up, and toll charges are reduced. That toll cost item many seem petty to some but I live in the northeast and everywhere you go seems to involve tolls. My EZ Pass bill has exploded since I started boating.
I raised the issue of a smoother ride for the boat, but he tells me that the newer single axle trailers have better springing and a torsion bar set-up that provides a better ride than previously. Anyone who ventures onto our I-states lately knows that many stretches have pavement issues, to say the least.
I tow with a Ford F-150 with tow package and a seven point controller plug so electric brakes are a possibility.
I bought this beast of a truck based on advice from this crew years ago. It was a great call.
So, what sort of trailer should I be looking at? Thanks in advance.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Greg Wallace » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:58 am

Single axle should be fine as long as you spec enough capacity to carry boat plus fuel and gear etc with a reasonable safety margin (in excess capacity). Brakes are a worthwhile investment regardless of local regulations. I like torsion suspension on single axle trailers but prefer traditional spring set up on the tandem. Why? Traditional spring type will more effectively equalize the load on each axle as the frame to pavement angle might vary from parallel, especially on a ramp with a severe break over to the incline. Torsion suspended axles are much less forgiving distributing equal load when the frame is parallel but have a greater tendancly to transfer as the angle changes.

I like tandems as long as the suspension is matched to actual load. Carrying a 3000lb load on a trailer sprung for a 6500lb load would be udesireable especially when trailering a woody.
Greg Wallace 23 Custom 22166 former Chris-Craft dealer Russells Point, Oh.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by tkhersom » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:33 pm

I am of the opinion that if you are going to travel as much as you claim a tandem axle is the way to go.

If you were going to just run a few mile to the ramp and back a couple of times/yr I would feel good about a single axle for that size boat.

The more you travel the greater the odds are of something going wrong.

PS: Still wondering about the name "Moosemeat" :wink:
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Don Vogt » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:55 pm

Moosemeat, Look under Trailer Decisions in Odds and Ends. there is an extensive, recent discussion of various elements of trailer design, including quite a debate about single vs. double axle trailers. The weight of your boat doesn't dictate double axles, and there is the argument that a lighter boat will excessively bounce on a double axle trailer because the trailer is designed for a heavier boat. I think the main argument in favor of double axle, when not required by weight considerations, is redundancy in the event of a flat tire. So the choice is yours.
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Doug P » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:56 pm

Imagine a tire blowing out at 60 mph on a 2 wheel trailer, or coming uncoupled.
Your boat would be mincemeat, not moose meat

What restorer would recommend a single axle trailer, unless he wants you back in his shop after your accident....
totally irresponsible

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Pete DeVito
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Pete DeVito » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:06 pm

Your boat would be fine on a good single axle but if you are going to get a new trailer go to a custom build and do it right. I have had both and I like the piece of mind going down the road at 70mph with two axles and four tires with disc brakes. There are many custom trailer builders throughout the country and check with your club and see what they have. Our club members have had many trailers built by the same company and they actually build the trailer to fit the boat. As the trailer is being built you should be a part of the process and get what you want. Research the threads on Buzz and have your notes when you visit the builders.
When I found my boat it had the original trailer under it. No way I would pull it on the interstate with that ole trailer.
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by boat_art » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:29 pm

I had a tire blow at 70 in the interstate last summer. Trust me, I am happy it was a dual axel.
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Don Vogt » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:02 am

Maybe I am conservative, but I never tow my boat faster than 60 mph, even out in the middle of nowhere. I feel it gives me an extra margin in the event something untoward happens, like someone else's bad driving, an animal jumping out in front of the car, etc. I think about the value of what is hanging to my car by a ball and socket. In Calif., for example, the max speed with a trailer is 55. I am curious, does anyone else do this?
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by drrot » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:33 am

I towed my U-22 to the show in Idaho about 12 years ago. I was driving through Montana, Some cars passed me and I passed some cars. Looked down at the speedometer and was doing 92. With such wide open country it felt like 55. I like to make time so I drive as fast as what I feel is safe. In a later discussion about the trip I found out my diesel was governed at 92.
I feel a trailer should be rated for the weight of the boat. Most modern 5 bolt axles are rated at 3500lbs. 6 bolt are 5200. I followed a 17' barrelback on a tandem axle trailer and every time it hit a decent bump the boat bounced up off the trailer. The trailer was sprung for 7000lbs and the boat weighed way less. Not enough weight to get the springs working.
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by mfine » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:39 am

You can get 2 2000 LB axels or whatever is appropriate, but it is the springs that matter most. A decent custom trailer builder should know how to build a twin axel for any boat weight with a proper ride.

If you have a bad accident at 75, you will be left with tooth picks. However, if you slow down and are only going 60 when you wreck, you will still be left with tooth picks. If you are going more than 10 mph with a valuable boat behind you, have a trailer you have confidence in.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Greg Wallace » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:47 am

I submit that the value of "redundancy" that comes with a tandem should perhaps be put in perspective. While it is true that you have redundancy in quantity, you will not likely have redundancy in capacity if the trailer is sized properly. In other words a single axle would be sized to carry the entire rated load while a tandem would be sized to share the entire load. If you lose one of the two complementary components (each side) you have essentially reduced the load carrying capacity by 50% of rated.

In my experience a flat with a tandem behaves no differently than a flat with a single. In most cases it is the forward most tire in the set that blows. The debris from the front tire if you don't get stopped before it starts to disintegrate may very well take out the second. (Steel belted radials can be nasty).

If you plan to pull the flat and move on be sure to carry the gear to pull and hold the wheeless axle up to keep the good one out of the fender. If you intend to move on for a long distance plan to inspect the load bearing axle for excessive wear to suspension, axle, bearings and tire. My advice is to be prepared to address the issue at the point of failure. Don't take undo comfort or less precaution just because you have a tandem.

The best precaution is to carry spare parts appropriate to distance and isolation. I carry two spare tires, spring , axle stub and hub assy if going a long distance or away from parts sources.

Tandems require twice the dilligence twice the maintainance and twice the spares and this should be taken under consideration when making a choice. I tend to lean towards multiple axles when capacity margins may be getting close but a single axle remains a viable and in many cases the correct choice. (My tow vehicle does not have tandem axles).
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Don Vogt » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:02 am

To me, slower speed increases the likelihood of being able to stop or maneuver out of a bad situation. Obviously if you cant, and get in a wreck, I agree, Matt, the speed difference probably doesnt help much. I also agree that having a good custom trailer is one of the best investments you can make. It is amazing to see sometimes these incredibly restored boats sitting on marginal trailers. Greg your points are well taken.
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Moosemeat » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:34 pm

I'm with Don on speed. I typically cruise at 60-63 while towing. I scares me though when in some places, like I-495 in Mass., people are passing you like you're a rock in a stream.
At every stop I check the tires and pat the bearings to see if they are heating up.
The boat sometimes seems to shift about a bit during the trip, so I may be having the bouncing issue. Does this happen to anyone else? Thanks.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Don Vogt » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:28 pm

how are you tying your boat down? in addition to tying into the front lifting ring, it is a good idea to secure the back of the boat by running a strap around the strut and securing the ends to each side of the trailer.
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Doug P » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:32 pm

Greg, I have to disagree. I have seen a single axle trailer blow a tire, flip and also flip the tow vehicle, cross the center line and hit other cars.

Trailer tires are NOT automobile tires and should be marked ST.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by boat_art » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:33 pm

My blowout happened to the left front tire. I immediately felt it an started to slow down. Had no problems at all and simply pulled over to the shoulder and put the spare on. Could it have flipped with a single axel? I dont know, but I do no there was no drama at all.
Having raised horses in the past I know I would never pull a single axel horse trailer. Same goes for my 'babies' on the boat trailer. Obviously I size the trailer and springs to the weight of the boat.
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Doug P » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:37 pm

In the latest "Brass Bell", Megan from Loadmasters has given a great story of trailering. Note the correct manner to ATTACH a boat to a trailer.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Doug P » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:39 pm

boat_art wrote: Having raised horses in the past I know I would never pull a single axle horse trailer. Same goes for my 'babies' on the boat trailer.
very good point :!:

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Greg Wallace » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:42 pm

In my 45 years and many hundreds of thousands of miles of towing I too have been witness to some pretty wild accidents involving single, tandem and even triples. Blow outs have been a contributing factor in many mishaps but I would stop short of making a generalization that the number of axles or even the flat tire was the sole component in these catastrophes.

In my experience there are other factors often at play including but certainly not limited to poor maintenance, excessive or insecure load, road hazards, mechanical failure and even a gross over reaction by the driver.

The point I was trying to make is that a tandem is not always the only correct choice. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The trailer should be matched to the load and intended use and the load has to be positioned correctly and the tow vehicle (and driver) has to be up to the task.

I completely agree with the tire comment. Trailers should be shod with tires rated for trailer service. If any of my comments suggested otherwise it was unintentional.
Greg Wallace 23 Custom 22166 former Chris-Craft dealer Russells Point, Oh.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Doug P » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:01 pm

Greg, Yes, several factors do make for good trailering. This topic was covered before in Boat Buzz and a symposium series was suggested. Perhaps we should re-emphasize symposiums.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Moosemeat » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:07 am

Don, my boat is secured at the front by the lift ring and in the rear by securing the strut to the trailer frame. I can tell that the boat is moving about some when I check the straps at a stop and find that they are loose.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Don Vogt » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:54 am

Moosemeat, not sure what to say. My rear strap has hooks on the ends that attach to the trailer, and I use a "come along" ratchet that is part of the strap. Once it is cinched tight it never loosens. Are your trailer bunks adjusted specifically for your boat? If so, I am not sure why the back straps would become loose. Maybe there are other thoughts out there?
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by boat_art » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:10 am

Don is right. One other possibility if all those are done is, excessive bounce overcoming the strap because of the trailer being over-sprung. I assume you have a full length bunk trailer rather than rollers, right?
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Doug P » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:30 am

Is the bow tied down properly?
THE LIFTING RING attached to a winch IS NOT A TIE DOWN :!:(unless a strap is placed through it to hold the boat to the trailer)
See pictures in the trailering article in "Brass Bell"
In many states it is required to have the bow secured by a chain/strap so it will not lift.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Brian Robinson » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:11 pm

In the recent Brass Bell trailer article couple things stood out to me:

A ratchet strap OVER the transom of any wood boat is a terrible idea. Not only is this putting loads on the structure of the boat it is not intended for (deck and covering boards…eek), big heavy nylon straps, padded or not, cranked down over varnish? No thanks.

If it was secured to the strut, one of the strongest pieces on the boat, at a slight down and back angle, the boat will not move with the bow secured and on a properly fitted trailer.

And looking at the Loadmaster photos, how many guide posts do you need??? And why do they set the boats up so high on the trailer, raising the center of gravity? And the bow looks higher than the stern? With wide axles shown, why not set the boat down between them? I'm sure they are well built and tow fine, but a little style is allowed, they are butt ugly, IMHO.
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Moosemeat » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:04 pm

I have just looked at the Loadmaster website. Nice stuff, but it may be a bit costly. I notice that the trailers for boats my size have, for the most part, two axles. I'm also warming up to the electric brake idea. This would be needed for any trip to Canada, and my truck has the seven point brake controller.
This idea may be off the wall, but to avoid the nightmare of a blowout and subsequent rollover, how about using a pair of those run-flat tires? This assumes I can find them with the proper capacity and duty rating.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Denis D » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:43 pm

So what is the proper way to secure the bow? I thought tying to the lift ring is bad since it puts too much stress on the king plank which is not designed for that force.
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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by boat_art » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:00 pm

Put the strap through the lift ring, then through the chocks, then down to the trailer. The winch strap can still be hooked to the lift ring. If there are no chocks, or they are too far forward, I simply pad the strap. Never had any damage to varnish if its padded properly. The strap should go from the ring to each side then down to avoid stressing the kingplank. The Brass Bell refers to a 'fast getaway' which I find funny.
Last edited by boat_art on Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by boat_art » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:09 pm

On many of the restorations I have done, I added 3/4 inch blocking under the kingplank as a 'belt and suspenders' to stiffen the lift ring post. I still caution the owners NOT to use it to pull the boat forward on the trailer with the winch.
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.

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Re: Trailer Axles, Should I Be Seeing Double?

Post by Doug P » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:27 pm

boat_art wrote:On many of the restorations I have done, I added 3/4 inch blocking under the kingplank as a 'belt and suspenders' to stiffen the lift ring post. I still caution the owners NOT to use it to pull the boat forward on the trailer with the winch.

Right on :)

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