Active Active   Unanswered Unanswered

my first boat, a chris craft xk 19 ss

If it doesn't pertain to metal, fiberglass, wire or fabric—but it is about classic fiberglass Chris-Crafts, ask your question or give your advice here.

Moderators: Don Ayers, Al Benton, Don Vogt

brett francis
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Nantes - france
Contact:

my first boat, a chris craft xk 19 ss

Post by brett francis » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:14 pm

hello, i live in france and i have a just bought my first boat, a chris craft xk 19 ss...
the boat need lot of attention and it had haved a long life using as a professionnal ski trainer... the boat as a volvo penta engine H.s. anD z-drive... not sure it hasn't born with a v-drive... i didn't find information about the hule, i gave my number to the xk registration and waiting about the feedback... ( number is ORAV -19-6035-Z )the boat has been imported to france in 1981... on the paper the real year of the boat is not writed... but the dash is on black plastic i am thinking about 1974 or 1975-6 !!!!
all the seat are missing, the wood deck need to be change...
i am looking about all information about the seat and plan with mesuration of the interior of the boat... i have the accessorie witch is ok ...
i have already bought a new engine a volvo penta 5.8 fl with a sx z-drive from volvo too... i kown that this engine is more young but i would like to put the boat with the best old look with new paint and the good interior !!
the boat was originaly blue for the hule and whit for the deck with a central blue stripe...
if you have information, please help me !!!
cheers,

Brett (françois)
Last edited by brett francis on Sun May 05, 2013 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Peter XK19
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:18 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

welcome

Post by Peter XK19 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:50 am

Hey,

The registry is not very active and there are no clubs dedicated to these boats alone. So this is the best place to be. Here is where people know old Chris-Crafts.

I have never seen any plans with meausrements to the interriors. I guess the best way is to find another XK or SS in France and take measurements from that boat.

I dont know of any other boat beeing originally blue hull and white deck.With this in mind I would guess the boat beeing a later modell.BUT the hardware tells another story.And so does the engine hatch.



the plate in your second picture is very confusing!

ORAV= the V is for V-axeldrive and then you ALSO have a Z at the end which is outdrive!!!

Try to look for hullnumber on the outside of the transom ( top starboard corner). Some boats have the number in the very front of the hull as far front as possible just under the rubrail. You may have to scratch off some paint to find it.If your number appears to be on the bow of your boat it is manufactured in Italy.

Read everything related to the XK-19 or SS on this site.

Good luck.

User avatar
Bill Basler
Posts: 1996
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:48 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Post by Bill Basler » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:12 am

Peter, this is good advice. Brett, it's great to have you with us. Peter arguably knows more about the XK19 than anyone in the world given that he has several of them, some of which have been extensively restored.

As I mentioned via prior Email, there are several things which are confusing regarding your hull number. For the benefit of others , here is what I wrote:. 

The prefix, ORAZ-19 would indicate this this is a 19-foot Lancer. If I go by the four digit trailing number, "6035" this does not fall within the Lancer series OR the XK 19 series. I do find a four digit range in the 16' XL160 Sportster. This number would be ORAZ-16-6001 through ORAZ-16-6075

Well, I can now see by the photos that this is an XK19 or an early Commander Super Sport. I need to get back to my Essential guide to look up the numbering on the SS.

Either way I am confused, as Peter is with the V and the Z in the hull number as well as the four numerals. I'll do a bit more research.
Bill Basler

dustoff135
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Smyrna, GA
Contact:

Post by dustoff135 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:31 am

Congratulations Brett, another classic saved from the junkyard.

I agree with Peter regarding what year it may be. The vents, grab handle and engine hatch are indicative of a 1970.

Was it imported to France from the U.S. in 1981 or from another European country? Maybe it was built for export, which could explain the odd hull number. That is just speculation on my behalf though.

The rear seats in these boats are a simple wooden frame. If you can find another one or find someone to send measurements and photos, it would be easy to replicate.

I would love to see more photos.

There is a 1970 XK currently on E-bay, check out the similarities. The E-bay listing is far from being original though,especially the interior.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... K:MEWAX:IT
Patrick

Previous projects: 1940 17' Barrelback, #71572
1971 XK19, ORCZ19-2016V

New project: Looking???

User avatar
Al Benton
Club Executive Team
Posts: 3549
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Post by Al Benton » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:38 am

The Essential Guide doesn't include any of these that may have been produced in Italy, so possibly that is why this hull number isn't showing up for those of us using the Guide.

The hatch appears to have a Super Sport emblem on it. The hull appears to be an XK-19. Is it from Italy?

Al

User avatar
Peter XK19
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:18 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

custom order?

Post by Peter XK19 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:55 am

Ok, with the color scheme you mentioned , confusing hull number and the odd seating arrangement. I wouldnt be surprised if it turns out this boat was originaly a custom order. A custom water-ski boat, delevired like this from the factory.
Would be interesting to see what the Mariners museum can find on this hull number.

Please let us know.

User avatar
Bill Basler
Posts: 1996
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:48 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Post by Bill Basler » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:45 am

I was thinking of that as well. Or that this
boat is a Commander Super Sport with navy blue hull, navy blue deck and white rallye stripe????
Bill Basler

User avatar
Peter XK19
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:18 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

but....

Post by Peter XK19 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:42 am

Bill.Francois says the original colour ( gelcoat this would be)is blue hull, white deck and blue stripes.

User avatar
Al Benton
Club Executive Team
Posts: 3549
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Post by Al Benton » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:36 pm

Bill, I think you're onto something. Many details of this boat are very similar to the '69, 19' Commander. This became the Corsair XK-19 in 1970 (much the same as the '69 Cavalier 17' Ski Boat became the 1970 17' Corsair Ski Boat, exact same boat).

The Archive doesn't have info for the '70 XK-19 to compare to but I can imagine that it was same as the '69 Commander. It could be a 1970 Corsair, the ORAV-19 part of the number fits. The 6035-Z is still a mystery. It may be an early Corsair Division factory conversion of a V-drive hull to a Z-drive. Is that possible? Maybe they pulled #35 off the line, converted it and assigned a special number to her.

Al

User avatar
Bill Basler
Posts: 1996
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:48 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Post by Bill Basler » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:13 pm

I suspect that this could be a Commander Super Sport, a precursor to the XK19, not so much by appearance, but rather by name, Division of origin and year of production.

By 1969, the 19' Commander would have been the smallest in a long and growing line of Commanders. To my knowledge the only year that this boat was badged the Commander Super Sport was 1969. There were 101 built. After 1969, the hull was rebadged the XK19.

Other things that jive are in 1969, the Commander Super Sports featured Dark Blue Hulls. They did also feature, however, a Dark Blue deck with a white stripe...not the White deck with Dark Blue stripe. Special order perhaps?

BUT!!!....

The 1969 Commander Super Sports were numbered:
FRAV-19-001 to FRAV-19-090
FRAZ-19-001 to FRAZ-19-015

So, by numbering alone, this would tell me that this is not a 1969 boat, but rather a 1970. But the Dark Blue Hull color would indicate that it is a 1969 SS and not a 1970.

BUT WAIT!!!...

The Commander Super Sport was allegedly gone from the lineup by 1970, with the boat now badged a XK19. By 1969, the newly badged XK19s were built in the following series:

ORCZ-19-001 to ORCZ-19-055 (1970)
ORCZ-19-2001 to ORCZ-19-2051 (1971-72)
ORCZ-19-3001 to ORCZ-19-3050 (1973)
ORCZ-19-4001 to ORCZ-19-4025 (1974)
ORCZ-19-5001 to ORCZ-19-5020 (1975)
ORAV-19-001 to ORAV-19-075 (1970)

Well, your prefix, ORAV falls into the above, 1970 production. Honestly I do not know what to make of the four digit, 6035, and alpha post letter Z.

Stumped!

According to the Essential Guide...

In 1970, a V-Drive model, ORAV-19, was offered. This model did not have the Siesta padded upholstery on the aft deck and was powered by a Chris-Craft 327QA engine.

I am wondering if this 19' Super Sport hold over from 1969 was now offered in 1970 as an XK19, but still offered with the hold over V drive, rather than the Transdrive offered on most 1970 XKs.

My vote is for a very early 1970 XK that still sported some of the hold over SS badging. Only the hull card would tell for sure.

Chris-Craft Antique Boat Club member Paul Pletcher has done some research on these. Maybe we can get him to add his two cents here.
Bill Basler

User avatar
Peter XK19
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:18 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

also

Post by Peter XK19 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:32 pm

just wanted to point out the fact beeing some boats have a hull # suggesting they were manufactured one year and then most probably had to sit around for a year (due to low sales) only to be sold next year with the new hardware and everything.

User avatar
Bill Basler
Posts: 1996
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:48 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Post by Bill Basler » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:59 pm

Right on Peter. I think you are exactly right that this could be a hold over 1969, rebadged as a 1970. Of course the holes for the Super Sport badging would have already been drilled so that badge could have stayed.

I just got off the phone again with Herb Pocklington, oldest living senior management employee of Chris-Craft. Herb also helped establish Chris-Craft's European operation in the late 60s, and ran that same operation during this time.

He mentioned that the 19' Commanders were built in Europe as well as the US, but the XK19s were not. This could be further evidence that this is a 1969 Commander SS, or a leftover, sold as a 1970 model.

Herb did mention that sales volume for the 19 Commander was low. This is all assumption at this point, but it seems credible based on the input from Herb.
Bill Basler

User avatar
Peter XK19
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:18 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

My 4 digit boat

Post by Peter XK19 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:19 pm

Bill, all the 1970 XK-19s I have seen also have the Super Sport badge on the engine hatch.I have two of them.

My burgundy XK-19 I bought in france a couple years ago is what I believe to be a 1970 manufactured in Italy. The Hull number was way up front and read(very hard to read due to extreme wear and tear)
ORAV.19.6010

This boat is the most worn down XK-19 I have ever seen. This was the one where the deck was so bad i ended up taking it off and throwing it away. its got a new deck and engine hatch at present.

User avatar
Peter XK19
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:18 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Italy?

Post by Peter XK19 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:25 pm

Bill, if you could ask next time you talk to Herb if there is any way to find out more about the European boats. I know Chris-Craft had production in Italy so I assume the XKs were built there too.But where and at what plant? There must have been at least 35 boats made since Francois has number 35( mine is number 10) Most likely more.............

User avatar
Don Ayers
Club Executive Team
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Post by Don Ayers » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:30 pm

Guys, the Holiday series that were built in Italy had a Z suffix.
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

User avatar
Chad Durren
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:39 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Contact:

Post by Chad Durren » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:00 pm

There's some great photos of a '69 Commander Super Sport that Macatawa restored a few years back. It had a 327Q with a V drive.

www.mbbw.com

Click on "Premium Boat Restorations" then scroll down to the bottom to see it.
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

dustoff135
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Smyrna, GA
Contact:

Post by dustoff135 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:44 pm

Though I'm sure this will not be a hard-and-fast rule, I think the vents indicate it is a 1970. Of the 69 and early 70s SS/XKs that I've seen, the 1970 models had a slightly taller and more rectangular vent.

Look at the vents in Brett's photos and compare them to the attached photos. The red boat is a 69 and the white is a 71. The blue boat is a 1970. Again, this is not a definite but does apply to the boats I've seen.
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Patrick

Previous projects: 1940 17' Barrelback, #71572
1971 XK19, ORCZ19-2016V

New project: Looking???

brett francis
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Nantes - france
Contact:

Post by brett francis » Sat May 01, 2010 5:03 pm

hello dear friends and thanx all for your interrest about my boat !! i am not sure because i haven't the return of the paper from the french maritime affair, the boat had lot of owner... i have just read it a few minutes before and i have see that it had been imported in 1981 (from the states but not sure now) the type writed was chris craft commander ... when i recieved it i will give more information !!!
i have now maybe all the pics we can find on internet i see some difference between model... mine have all the accessories from the 69 and 70 but the dashboard is in black plastic but i think there is a wood one under... the glass windshield is brown (but it could be change)
the front seat are from another boat ... the rear seat have been removed and a metal structure had been made for the hook for the parachute !!!
as peter told me i will see if i could find another number !!!



[img][img]http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6153 ... 86x.th.jpg[/img][/img]

User avatar
Don Ayers
Club Executive Team
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Post by Don Ayers » Sun May 02, 2010 3:07 pm

Check out this link on You Tube on the XK boats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF7_7hU- ... re=related
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

brett francis
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Nantes - france
Contact:

Post by brett francis » Sun May 02, 2010 3:30 pm

thanx you don, i have already seen that video !!! i have already spend several hours on the net searching everything about cc commander ss !!!
some other pics of the boat the day i find it !!
Last edited by brett francis on Sun May 05, 2013 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

brett francis
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Nantes - france
Contact:

Post by brett francis » Thu May 13, 2010 3:30 am

just received the paper today, as i already said the boat had been imported to france in 1981 but nothing about the origine... the model write on the paper is commander 19 built year 1971... that's all the engine in 1981 was a omc 225 ....
anybody have found informations ????

brett francis
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Nantes - france
Contact:

Post by brett francis » Mon May 17, 2010 3:07 pm

look at this xk to sell on ebay , the hule number is unknow too no

User avatar
Bill Basler
Posts: 1996
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:48 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Post by Bill Basler » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:48 pm

Bret:

Thank you for your posts. If you could, please use the "Add Image to Post" link directly under the message content area (as you are typing your new messages. This insures that the message will get archived with proper thumbnails, making the forum pages less cumbersome for those on slower connections, ie: dial up, cell, etc.

Thank you.
Bill Basler

brett francis
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Nantes - france
Contact:

Post by brett francis » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:07 pm

hello dear friends !!! i have some news about my boat yesterday, i managed to talk to first owner write on the paper, what a surprise for him .... so, he explain me the story of the boat... the boat was imported illegaly in the seventies by the french evinrude importator and was sold to some well know french restaurateur in paris.. they use the boat on the seine but never made french paper...he bought the boat in 1980 from them... i confirm me that the hull was blue with the deck in white with a blue stripe ... he will try to find some hold pics of the boat... i have also read the information in the file at french maritime affair .. and i have see a bild from the evinrude seller made to help the second owner to have legal paper... and the description of the boat was :
" chris craft commander 19 from 1971"

here some pics of a similar colour shem



Image
Image
Image

brett francis
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Nantes - france
Contact:

Post by brett francis » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:14 pm

Hi dear friends, after month of research, i am sure now about the origin of my boat, as Peter was thinking it had been made in italy, one of m'y contact find me the signification
Of the chris craft serial number :

First letter is about the chris craft division

C - Chris-Craft
D - Canadian Chris-Craft (CC Type)
F - Fiberglass (Commander Division)
G - Fiberglass (Skiff Division)
H - Houseboat
J - Sailboat
K - Fiberglass (Cavalier Division)
O - Corsair Fiberglass
R - Roamer
S - Sea Skiff
T - Thompson
U - Canadian Chris-Craft (Skiff Type)
V - Cavalier
W - Canadian Chris-craft

Second letter is about the type of boat :

A - Flush Deck Cruiser (with aft cabin)
B - Double Cabin Flybridge Cruiser
C - Open Sloop (Daysailer model)
D - Sedan Cruiser
F - Sport Fisherman Cruiser
K - Ketch
M - Motor Yacht
O - Pilot House Forward
P - Sloop with Cabin
R - Runabout
S - Semi-Enclosed Cruiser
U - Utility
X - Express Type Cruiser
Y - Yawl

Third one is the about the série, A for the first, B for the second, C for the third, etc...

Fourth is about transmission

Z - Stern Drive
J - Jet Pump Drive
O - Outboard
V - Vee Drive

About number, first group is about the size in feet.

Second group is about normaly about year of production and the number of Hull produced this year

At the end the last letter explain where the boat was produced :

A - Algonac, MI
C - Cadillac, MI
D - Salisbury, MD
F - Pompano, FL
H - Holland, MI
K - Caruthersville, TN
N - Cortland, NY (before 1969)
N - Edenton, MD (after 1968)
R - Roamer, Holland, MI
S - Stratford, Ontario, CAN
T - Chattanooga, TN
V - Cortland, NY (after 1968)
W - Hayward, CA
Z - Fiumicino, Italy

So, for my boat orav 19 6035 z

O : division Corsair
R : runabout
A : first design
V : transmission V-drive
19 : 19 feet
6 : 6th year's production (what is not possible)
035 : 35 th hull
Z : built in fiumicino italy

(thank Thibaud for this information)

but there is still a problem about the production's year The boat can't be made in 1975,
So i am still find information about our boat, hope this could help other owner who don't fin d signification of ther Hull number !
Last edited by brett francis on Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
quitchabitchin
Posts: 568
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:48 pm
Location: Oxford, OH
Contact:

Post by quitchabitchin » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:51 pm

I would have to guess that the 1970's were left over 1969's because the 1971 and up XK's have a few design changes. The vents are closer to the center on all the 69 commanders and the 70 XK's I have seen. The rear ones were moved out to make more room for the sunpad and they probably moved the front ones to make it look right. The 69's and 70's both also have a handle in front of the step pads, this was gone in 71. The 6 in the hull # is a bit of a mystery. I think it is a 70 XK....our 1969 17' Cavalier Ski Boat was titled as a Commander Super Sport by the Indiana BMV, so I don't think you can trust the papers 100%. The Essential Guide has a typo on the hull # calling it a 1970 Corsair XX V-Drive. Has hull #35 been documented anywhere else?
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

CCABC Board of Directors Member

User avatar
Don Ayers
Club Executive Team
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Post by Don Ayers » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:16 am

Brett;

Anything new on your XK project?
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

brett francis
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Nantes - france
Contact:

Post by brett francis » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:09 pm

Hi don, the project didn't really change last year, i bought a xk 22 in very original state but i have just sold it to concentrate on the xk !.. But this weekend i bought another xk this weekend ... The serial number is orav.19.2013... It is in good state but had been modified at the rear, the interior is complete, all the hardware is missing !!! It was burgundy...
Brett

Cc commander 19 SS 1971 ORAV 19 6035 Z
Cc xk 19 1970 ORAV 19 2013

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests