Transmission teardown

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Transmission teardown

Postby island time » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:38 pm

All I hear lately is crickets chirping, where is everybody?
I thought i would try to wake somebody up so I'm posting some pictures of the transmission project.
Yesterday I sandblasted the entire trans/V-drive to get ready for disassembly. Today I tore down the V-drive, Waiting for a reply on transmission rebuild parts before I tear that apart. All bearings are bad, all seals were leaking. The transmission fluid was low because the rear transmission seal was leaking and all the fluid was in the V-drive! New bearings and seals for the V-drive are on order and will be here next week.
I now know where all the oil in the bilge was coming from!
Thankfully all gears, shafts and splines are in perfect condition, just one shaft will get a repair sleeve for the seal area.
Anyone know of a way to remove rust scale from the water jacket around the V-drive gear case? It's not like an exhaust manifold where you can just push the junk through. This is an enclosed horseshoe shaped cavity and not very big.
Old engine is sold and new one will be here next week. Tried to deal with Michigan Motorz but Center State in Florida had a better product at a better price. Michigan Motorz wanted $100. more than Center state for opposite rotation and more for shipping too. Weather has been vile, won't stop raining and my work area is outside.
Will keep you posted with updates and pictures as they become available.
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Craig Wilson
Churchville, NY
Alexandria Bay, NY

1968 23' Chris Craft lancer
1971 31' Revelcraft
1988 25' Fourwinns
1972 19' Chris Craft Lancer
1957 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1958 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1968 23' Chris Craft Commander
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island time
 
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Re: Transmission teardown

Postby joanroy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:15 am

Sorry, can't help. I'm afraid rebuilding transmissions is beyond my mechanical capabilities. Still interesting to kinda see how it's done. Thanks for posting!
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Re: Transmission teardown

Postby island time » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:39 pm

No problem,
I will keep posting pictures of the progress.
I spent all day cleaning and painting parts. I am going to take the CV joint that connects the transmission to the V-drive to a local driveshaft machine shop tomorrow to have new U-joints installed. I learned a long time ago that even though I like rebuilding mechanical things it's not worth doing U-joints myself.
I am also taking one of the V-drive shafts over to my buddy that owns a machine shop to put in the lathe and cut down the O.D. of the sealing surface that is worn and I will then install a repair sleeve to hopefully put an end to the oil leaks into the bilge.
Tomorrow I will post some pictures of the pretty painted parts. I now remember that there are LOTS of parts to clean and paint!

Craig
Craig Wilson
Churchville, NY
Alexandria Bay, NY

1968 23' Chris Craft lancer
1971 31' Revelcraft
1988 25' Fourwinns
1972 19' Chris Craft Lancer
1957 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1958 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1968 23' Chris Craft Commander
User avatar
island time
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:11 pm

Re: Transmission teardown

Postby jfrprops » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:57 pm

Island time:

As to you wondering where everybody is or has gone....I suspect the dreaded FAKEBOOK...as per previous post on the lack of post here now.

Also, have not the time to research back, BUT I think I posted info for you about transmission before...and if I did NO WAY I understood you had a V drive going on......So sorry.....?????

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)
jfrprops
 
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Location: Powhatan Courthouse Virginia

Re: Transmission teardown

Postby island time » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:25 am

Interesting point about searching for info about my V-drive, I've been looking all over the internet and
As many of these drives that are out there it amazes me at the lack of definitive information. Lots of opinions but nothing in print.
Case and point; There are a couple of good sources for paragon parts that also have excellent customer service but absolutely zero for the V-drive portion of the package. It's like they never existed. No parts lists, no sources for rebuilding. It seems that nobody wants to work on them, then the big issue about what lubricant to use in the gear case. There are opinions across the board, everything from standard gear oil to synthetic to running ATF in it. I know enough to know you don't use ATF in a gear case but why isn't there anything in the Chris Craft operator's manuals that spells it out? I found reference that says the oil should be replaced every 100 hours or once per season but nothing about what kind of lubricant or capacity.
Very strange!
Fortunately these V-drives are not a complicated beast, basic gears and bearings. A little basic mechanical knowledge will get you through a complete overhaul but so far I have not found a source for gaskets. Bearings are generic and available many places but I was surprised that they are metric. Back when these drives were built I would have thought that was prior to the metric "push".
Anyway, I can make my own gaskets and I found new bearings but I guess when it comes to lubricant I will fall back on prior experience and unless I hear differently I will use good old fashioned gear lube.

Craig
Craig Wilson
Churchville, NY
Alexandria Bay, NY

1968 23' Chris Craft lancer
1971 31' Revelcraft
1988 25' Fourwinns
1972 19' Chris Craft Lancer
1957 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1958 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1968 23' Chris Craft Commander
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island time
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:11 pm

Re: Transmission teardown

Postby jim g » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:46 pm

ATF in the trans and 80-90w in the v-drive. This is the guy that can answer your questions.

http://www.federalmarinetransmissions.com/
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Re: Transmission teardown

Postby island time » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:01 am

Thank you Jim,
I actually touched base with Federal Transmissions yesterday, I will be calling them again today to order transmission parts. In terms of the ATF I guess that the "A" designation no longer exists but I will find out today exactly what federal recommends and uses in their rebuilds and pass that info along to the congregation.
As far as the Gear oil, would you use mineral base or synthetic? Just curious whether the new seals are made of the same materials as way back when and how a synthetic would react with them.

Craig
Craig Wilson
Churchville, NY
Alexandria Bay, NY

1968 23' Chris Craft lancer
1971 31' Revelcraft
1988 25' Fourwinns
1972 19' Chris Craft Lancer
1957 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1958 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1968 23' Chris Craft Commander
User avatar
island time
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:11 pm

Re: Transmission teardown

Postby island time » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:47 am

Well I just spent an hour and a half on the phone with Jim at Federal Transmissions.
Super nice guy! very helpful and willing to explain anything in great detail including cautions, how-tos, tricks and time savers if you're doing your own work as I am.
He explained about these old series transmissions are getting harder and harder to find parts for (some parts are just plain extinct) simply because Paragon quit building them quite a while ago, something like 1982.
I found out that my transmission has a reversible input which is nice since I am changing motor directions.
Now for the best part: The definitive answer on proper fluids.
The transmission uses Dexron 3, not 2 and not 4, only 3. He went on to say that Ford Mercon is also good but they use the Dexron 3 in their rebuilds.
Another thing, NO SYNTHETICS!
Now for the shocker:
Paragon says ATF in the gear case not heavy gear lube like I thought! Jim said you can also use straight 30 engine oil but deferred back to ATF also no synthetics.
Having done all this I'm off to the shop to tear down the transmission.

Craig
Craig Wilson
Churchville, NY
Alexandria Bay, NY

1968 23' Chris Craft lancer
1971 31' Revelcraft
1988 25' Fourwinns
1972 19' Chris Craft Lancer
1957 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1958 18' Chris Craft Sea Skiff
1968 23' Chris Craft Commander
User avatar
island time
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:11 pm

Re: Transmission teardown

Postby jim g » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:01 pm

Do what he says to do and it will last another life time. I now remember he told me ATF or 30w in the v-drive on Paragon. I serviced one not to long ago that had milky oil in it. 80-90w was for the early crusader v-drives in Miss America IX.

I restored a twin 283 engined open Sea Skiff years ago. That had the first generation Paragon hydraulic trans. HF-2's. They were direct drives and one said type A atf on the plate and the other said 30w on the plate.

Glad he was able to help you out. Just return the generosity by buying some parts from him. He might not be the least expensive place. But its backed up by the knowledge and helpfulness.

I've been doing business with him for about 20 years. I'll rebuild the manual gearboxs but I send all the hydraulics to him.
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