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71 Lancer 19' Chevy 307 Distributor Conversion to Electronic
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71 Lancer 19' Chevy 307 Distributor Conversion to Electronic
I have a 1971 Chris Craft Lancer 19' with a Chevy 307, 200 hp. I want to change out the Distributor to a Electronic Ignition system.
I have bought a Chevy Pro Marine Distributor and it appears to be to long by about 1". Also the "L" clamp down mount on the top will not work. I am told the Chevy Pro Marine Distributor is a standard Chevy Distributor and should work.
Has anyone converted to electronic ignition and what is the best way to do that? Can I buy an adapter to make this one work?
That has led me to doing this is I am loosing power after a few hours of operation and am told the timing and Dwell may be slipping. I checked the timing and it appeared to be o.k at 8 BTDC, but the Dwell was about 15-20. Understand it should be 28-32.
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
I have bought a Chevy Pro Marine Distributor and it appears to be to long by about 1". Also the "L" clamp down mount on the top will not work. I am told the Chevy Pro Marine Distributor is a standard Chevy Distributor and should work.
Has anyone converted to electronic ignition and what is the best way to do that? Can I buy an adapter to make this one work?
That has led me to doing this is I am loosing power after a few hours of operation and am told the timing and Dwell may be slipping. I checked the timing and it appeared to be o.k at 8 BTDC, but the Dwell was about 15-20. Understand it should be 28-32.
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
A low dwell # will definately make the boat seem like its bogged down. Set the dwell at 30 where it should be and go out for a run then retest. If it moved the spring in the adjusting screw set may be soft and allowing movement or the points are done. Make sure they dont have too much grease or have oil coming up into the cap. If you replace the points make sure they are heavy duty not regular automotive. Another option is to rebuild your existing distributor and convert to electronic. Also, make sure your using the right coil, resistor or non- resistor, for your engine. I'm not sure which one you should have.
I agree, I think this is part of the problem. That is my main motivation to convert to Electronic. Also reliability and longevity.Ollon wrote:A low dwell # will definately make the boat seem like its bogged down. Set the dwell at 30 where it should be and go out for a run then retest. If it moved the spring in the adjusting screw set may be soft and allowing movement or the points are done. Make sure they dont have too much grease or have oil coming up into the cap. If you replace the points make sure they are heavy duty not regular automotive. Another option is to rebuild your existing distributor and convert to electronic. Also, make sure your using the right coil, resistor or non- resistor, for your engine. I'm not sure which one you should have.
- quitchabitchin
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As long as your housing/shaft and bushings are good, I would use the electronic conversion kit. The engine manual lists this - Ignition Distributor Assembly-YL 566AV- as the Mallory part #. These conversions are readily available via eBay or a place like Summit or Jegs for around $125.
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q
CCABC Board of Directors Member
CCABC Board of Directors Member
Thanks, that is the distributor I have.quitchabitchin wrote:As long as your housing/shaft and bushings are good, I would use the electronic conversion kit. The engine manual lists this - Ignition Distributor Assembly-YL 566AV- as the Mallory part #. These conversions are readily available via eBay or a place like Summit or Jegs for around $125.
- quitchabitchin
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Located a new internal electronic ignition system for my Mallory Distributor. Put in new cap, rotor and wires. I have a 307 QLV so used firing order 1-8-7-2-4-3-6-5 for counter-clockwise rotation. I am confused on where #1 cylinder is? As you look at the motor end with the belts and toward the prop I am guessing the #1 cylinder is left side closest to the prop?
Also, found what I believe is the timing mark on the flywheel "T" the hole on the housing has two screws, I am guessing there was a scale that has been removed?
What is the correct firing order for this motor?
Where is #1 Cylinder?
If I install Electronic ignition does does this change anything as far as the above is concerned, I would think, "No"?
I understand that timing is 8BTDC is that true?
What should the timing marks look like?
Is there a scale?
Any help on these unknowns would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Also, found what I believe is the timing mark on the flywheel "T" the hole on the housing has two screws, I am guessing there was a scale that has been removed?
What is the correct firing order for this motor?
Where is #1 Cylinder?
If I install Electronic ignition does does this change anything as far as the above is concerned, I would think, "No"?
I understand that timing is 8BTDC is that true?
What should the timing marks look like?
Is there a scale?
Any help on these unknowns would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
- Paul P
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Pertronix would be my choice. And I absolutely would recommend buying it from someone in the Chris Craft boating community, rather than Jegs or Summit. No offense to those companies, but most of the people there have never heard of a Q motor and people who provide Chris Craft parts know EXACTLY what you need.
I not too long ago learned this lesson on my own. I purchased a Pertronix system for my 1966 327F in the Sea Skiff, and when it arrived it did not fit. Come to find out, there were two Prestolite distributors for that series, and the serial numbers for each of them was one digit off. The seller knew it was for a 327F but a Chris Craft guy would have known which unit to send me, and would have ASKED me to check the serial number.
best,
Paul
I not too long ago learned this lesson on my own. I purchased a Pertronix system for my 1966 327F in the Sea Skiff, and when it arrived it did not fit. Come to find out, there were two Prestolite distributors for that series, and the serial numbers for each of them was one digit off. The seller knew it was for a 327F but a Chris Craft guy would have known which unit to send me, and would have ASKED me to check the serial number.
best,
Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)
So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)
So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!
See this old thread for cylinder locations and firing order for flywheel forward CC engines, I posted pics from a Q manual toward the bottom.Speed71 wrote: What is the correct firing order for this motor?
Where is #1 Cylinder?
If I install Electronic ignition does does this change anything as far as the above is concerned, I would think, "No"?
I understand that timing is 8BTDC is that true?
What should the timing marks look like?
Is there a scale?
,
http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... torder=asc
The electronic ignition won't change these things. The 8bdc may be the base setting, but your distributor should add advance with increasing RPM, so find a manual or someone who know what the curve should be for your engine. The advance comes from springs and weights, so now is probably a good time to make sure they are in good shape and adding the right advance at the correct RPM rather than just checking at idle and assuming the advance is working.
The timing mark is likely just a line and may or may not be easily visible or painted over after a few decades. Once you locate it, you probably want to paint a nice clean white mark that you can see when timing. If there is no mark you can pull the spark plug and find TDC and add a mark.
Thanks, this is a big help. I had this drawing but I tried to reengineer it and didn't take it for face value. You confirmed how the drawing should be read.mfine wrote:See this old thread for cylinder locations and firing order for flywheel forward CC engines, I posted pics from a Q manual toward the bottom.Speed71 wrote: What is the correct firing order for this motor?
Where is #1 Cylinder?
If I install Electronic ignition does does this change anything as far as the above is concerned, I would think, "No"?
I understand that timing is 8BTDC is that true?
What should the timing marks look like?
Is there a scale?
,
http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... torder=asc
The electronic ignition won't change these things. The 8bdc may be the base setting, but your distributor should add advance with increasing RPM, so find a manual or someone who know what the curve should be for your engine. The advance comes from springs and weights, so now is probably a good time to make sure they are in good shape and adding the right advance at the correct RPM rather than just checking at idle and assuming the advance is working.
The timing mark is likely just a line and may or may not be easily visible or painted over after a few decades. Once you locate it, you probably want to paint a nice clean white mark that you can see when timing. If there is no mark you can pull the spark plug and find TDC and add a mark.
- quitchabitchin
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The timing mark on the flywheel of the Q motor is just an indent, it looks like it was drilled with just the tip of the drill. It is for TDC on the Q designated #1, standard SBC #8.
It really doesn't make a difference which set of #'s you use, as long as you stick with the same set. I just set mine up and after installing the cam and setting the initial valve lash, the motor was on on the standard #1, Q #8. I set the distributor on the Q #8 position and dropped it into place. Don't let the numbering get too confusing, some of the Mallory caps are manufactured with the standard firing order on the top, not the circles where you can write the firing order. Either set of numbers will work, just keep it simple.
It really doesn't make a difference which set of #'s you use, as long as you stick with the same set. I just set mine up and after installing the cam and setting the initial valve lash, the motor was on on the standard #1, Q #8. I set the distributor on the Q #8 position and dropped it into place. Don't let the numbering get too confusing, some of the Mallory caps are manufactured with the standard firing order on the top, not the circles where you can write the firing order. Either set of numbers will work, just keep it simple.
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q
CCABC Board of Directors Member
CCABC Board of Directors Member
I see two threaded wholes on the casing and a line in between them. I have made that bright white.quitchabitchin wrote:The timing mark on the flywheel of the Q motor is just an indent, it looks like it was drilled with just the tip of the drill. It is for TDC on the Q designated #1, standard SBC #8.
It really doesn't make a difference which set of #'s you use, as long as you stick with the same set. I just set mine up and after installing the cam and setting the initial valve lash, the motor was on on the standard #1, Q #8. I set the distributor on the Q #8 position and dropped it into place. Don't let the numbering get too confusing, some of the Mallory caps are manufactured with the standard firing order on the top, not the circles where you can write the firing order. Either set of numbers will work, just keep it simple.
The Flywheel is another story. I have found what looks like a "T" that is stamped in the flywheel. I am assuming that is TDC. Thoughts?
The question I have is how do you determine Clockwise or counterclockwise rotation. Looking at the stern or the bow?
The distributor was taken out by one person and put back by another. So I question proper location. So have removed the #1 Cylinder Plug and turned it over. The "T" on the flywheel shows up in the area but the distributor rotor does not point to the #1 plug wire per the diagram.
It runs but out of the hole pulling a skier it falls on it's face at about 1500 to 2000 RPMs. Can't seem to figure it out.
See the pictures I posted in the linked thread to figure out rotation and firing order. As long as the plug wire goes to where the distributor points to when that cylinder is on top, the exact orientation should not matter. That said, I would line up the distributor like the CC manual to avoid future confusion.
Running like a dog as RPM goes up could be a lack of advance coming in. Check the advance at idle, 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 rpm and make sure you are getting the appropriate advance curve. I am not sure what the Q specs were but you should probably have 25-30 degrees of total advance at 3000 rpm. You will want to get this right, so find a manual or someone who knows these engine and distributors well enough to advise you.
Running like a dog as RPM goes up could be a lack of advance coming in. Check the advance at idle, 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 rpm and make sure you are getting the appropriate advance curve. I am not sure what the Q specs were but you should probably have 25-30 degrees of total advance at 3000 rpm. You will want to get this right, so find a manual or someone who knows these engine and distributors well enough to advise you.
- quitchabitchin
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Here is a photo of my 327Q at TDC according to CC's #1 cylinder. Notice the timing mark to the right of the hole. This is the indent I was talking about. If you have two threaded holes, you are probably missing your pointer, just go for the middle. I do not have any other marks on my flywheel.
This is before I marked it with white paint, so it is kind of hard to see.
This is before I marked it with white paint, so it is kind of hard to see.
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q
CCABC Board of Directors Member
CCABC Board of Directors Member
Thanks, I did look at your picture and determined Counter Clockwise rotation shortly after the posting.mfine wrote:See the pictures I posted in the linked thread to figure out rotation and firing order. As long as the plug wire goes to where the distributor points to when that cylinder is on top, the exact orientation should not matter. That said, I would line up the distributor like the CC manual to avoid future confusion.
Running like a dog as RPM goes up could be a lack of advance coming in. Check the advance at idle, 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 rpm and make sure you are getting the appropriate advance curve. I am not sure what the Q specs were but you should probably have 25-30 degrees of total advance at 3000 rpm. You will want to get this right, so find a manual or someone who knows these engine and distributors well enough to advise you.
I think we are on to something here!!!
I am going to go back to the CC manual settings for 307QL on the Distributor cap then get the distributor to point to #1 by removing it and reinstalling it. I thought it would go in only two directions 180 out from each other but am told it can go in 24 different ways. Any thoughts on that?
- quitchabitchin
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If you turned the motor over with the plug out, did you hold your finger over the hole to make sure you are on the firing position? Just when you stop feeling pressure on your finger, you are at the firing position of that cylinder and the distributor should be pointed to that position.
If it is running, you are in the right position. Loosen the distributor and rotate the housing clockwise while it's running until it acts like it's going to die, then turn it counter clockwise until it smooths back out. This should get you pretty close to the correct timing.
I agree with Matt, if your advance springs are corroded or worn out, it may not be advancing correctly, but I would make sure it's not too retarded to begin with. My distributor had to be turned to the pint at which it hits the cooling hose coming off of the thermostat and couldn't be turned much more clockwise.
If it is running, you are in the right position. Loosen the distributor and rotate the housing clockwise while it's running until it acts like it's going to die, then turn it counter clockwise until it smooths back out. This should get you pretty close to the correct timing.
I agree with Matt, if your advance springs are corroded or worn out, it may not be advancing correctly, but I would make sure it's not too retarded to begin with. My distributor had to be turned to the pint at which it hits the cooling hose coming off of the thermostat and couldn't be turned much more clockwise.
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q
CCABC Board of Directors Member
CCABC Board of Directors Member
- quitchabitchin
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Thanks, I did that and I am in accordance with the manual. Distributor cap wires are exactly as the CC Manual. Pulled the distributor and reset it on TDC pointing at #1.mfine wrote:The drive for the oil pump will make it want to only drop in two positions 180 apart, but you can use a big screw driver to twist the oil pump so it will drop in on any tooth on the gear.
Started right up. Was pretty excited. Still unable to find a timing mark on the flywheel other than the stamp "T".
Still have hesitation at about 2000-2500 RPMs out of the hole. I had a timing light on the flywheel when I excelerated and it did advance. Not a technical measurement but it is moving. One key, if I back off of it a little it will catch up and increase on it's own. Could that be a fuel pressure issue?
Thank you all for your help. I am on vacation at Banks Lake WA. and have been able to troubleshoot this.
We are close
- quitchabitchin
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It could be fuel, carb adjustments, or any number of things.
It is not likely that the fuel pressure has anything to do with it. If you were not getting enough fuel, it would probably take longer to drain the carb bowl and starve it than at 2500 RPM, unless you stay there for a while. Your secondaries could be delayed in opening or opening too soon, causing you to go lean. If you have the original Carter AVS carb, the secondary spring is notorious for getting weak and allowing the rear flap to open too early, causing the carb to get more air than fuel. If you stay on the throttle, does it straighten itself out?
You can adjust it by loosening the locking screw on the side of the secondary air valve, letting the flap fall completely open, turn the spring counter clockwise until the flap just begins to close, then turn it two more turns and reset the locking screw. This is the factory adjustment, if your spring is weak, you may try two and a half or three turns.
The AVS stands for Air Valve Secondary and does not have counterweights to help pull the flap open, it relies on air to pull it open. If it opens too soon, it will cause a lean condition and slight bog.[/img]
It is not likely that the fuel pressure has anything to do with it. If you were not getting enough fuel, it would probably take longer to drain the carb bowl and starve it than at 2500 RPM, unless you stay there for a while. Your secondaries could be delayed in opening or opening too soon, causing you to go lean. If you have the original Carter AVS carb, the secondary spring is notorious for getting weak and allowing the rear flap to open too early, causing the carb to get more air than fuel. If you stay on the throttle, does it straighten itself out?
You can adjust it by loosening the locking screw on the side of the secondary air valve, letting the flap fall completely open, turn the spring counter clockwise until the flap just begins to close, then turn it two more turns and reset the locking screw. This is the factory adjustment, if your spring is weak, you may try two and a half or three turns.
The AVS stands for Air Valve Secondary and does not have counterweights to help pull the flap open, it relies on air to pull it open. If it opens too soon, it will cause a lean condition and slight bog.[/img]
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q
CCABC Board of Directors Member
CCABC Board of Directors Member
Thanks, Based on your comments, we rebuilt the Edelbrock 650 last night. Has improved but still is falls flat at about 2000-2500 RPMs and slight miss at 3400 RPS wide open.quitchabitchin wrote:It could be fuel, carb adjustments, or any number of things.
It is not likely that the fuel pressure has anything to do with it. If you were not getting enough fuel, it would probably take longer to drain the carb bowl and starve it than at 2500 RPM, unless you stay there for a while. Your secondaries could be delayed in opening or opening too soon, causing you to go lean. If you have the original Carter AVS carb, the secondary spring is notorious for getting weak and allowing the rear flap to open too early, causing the carb to get more air than fuel. If you stay on the throttle, does it straighten itself out?
You can adjust it by loosening the locking screw on the side of the secondary air valve, letting the flap fall completely open, turn the spring counter clockwise until the flap just begins to close, then turn it two more turns and reset the locking screw. This is the factory adjustment, if your spring is weak, you may try two and a half or three turns.
The AVS stands for Air Valve Secondary and does not have counterweights to help pull the flap open, it relies on air to pull it open. If it opens too soon, it will cause a lean condition and slight bog.[/img]
It does not fall flat on the hole shot as it did. Thinking it may be a flat cam. Will have to do a compression test to determine that .Understand these 307 QLV motors have cam wear issues. Anyone have insight on this.
Did find sediment in the fuel filter, Draining the take and cleaninig it best I can.
I may want to replace the tank with a modern plastic tank at some point. Any suggestions there?
Thanks,
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