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1962 16' Corsair

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BetsyS
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1962 16' Corsair

Post by BetsyS » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:23 pm

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just acquired this 1961 or 1962 Chris Craft Corsair 16' fiberglass with original 40 hp Evinrude Lark. Mint condition with canvas and runs like a charm. Was kept in boathouse on lake since new. Serviced regularly and taken out once a year for spin around lake. Have manual for motor, but can't find any info. on boat. What do we have??

Wood Commander
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Post by Wood Commander » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:24 pm

The Corsair Division was the former Thompson Boat Company of Cortland, NY,(one of several Thompson Boat Companies)builders of plywood lapstrake boats. Chris Craft bought the company in the very early 1960's and started building some of their very first small fiberglass boat lines. Later, Lancers, XK 19 and 22's and other fiberglass models followed. And I think a few small boats that were similiar to Corsairs but were called Sea Skiff's (which were usually another line of Chris Craft boats that were plywood lapstrake and built in all sizes including large cruisers)

You have a very nice boat there, a great find. Boats from the Corsair Division have good reputations as being seaworthy and fun boats.

And you can get a copy of your hull card and other info in a research package from the Research Library in The Mariner's Museum in Newport News, Virginia, Jerry Conrad is the Curator. They are the custodians of the Chris Craft Archives.
Bret

1953 35' Commander "Adonis III"

1970 23' lancer project

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Al Benton
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Post by Al Benton » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:09 pm

BetsyS,

Welcome to Boat Buzz. You actually have a rare 1967, 15' Sport-V. Only 25 of these were produced. Your hull number should be OREO-15-0xx, between 001 and 025. The boat is 15'-5" long and 6'-8" wide.

As Bret mentioned, you may call the Mariners Museum, Chris Craft Archival Collection at 757-591-7785 and order a research package. It includes a copy of the original hull card and many other items of interest specific to your boat. You'll need the hull number.

You'll need to do this in the next month or so, or you may have to wait till next Fall. The collection will be moving to a new, much larger facility beginning in late March, early April and will be inaccessible for about 6 months.

Al
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BetsyS
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Post by BetsyS » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:25 am

Thanks for the great information! I'll contact Jerry right away. Although, we can't find the hull number. We've checked every inch of transom, where else might it be?

It is a beautiful boat. Like it came right out of a time capsule, having been kept in the boat house all these years. An elderly couple, 2 camps down from ours, owned it. Sold their camp to young couple 2 years ago and left it in boathouse. New owners had no use for an "old" boat, so gave it to us. Even had to buy a new trailer for it.

Any idea on value? Haven't had insurance on it except to drive to public launch, then trailer it home. Just sitting in back yard at moment, since it's Feb in Maine,winterized and covered of course. Sounds like it should be insured, though.

Thanks again for the help!

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:17 am

BetsyS, this is a fantastic boat and very rare.

The "O" in the hull ID number is the division designation for the Corsair Divsion. The R designates the hull type which is Runabout. I am not sure what the third letter E denotes. Records are a bit sketchy on this. the fourth letter O denotes Outboard.

Perhaps one of the reasons that your boat is so rare is that Chris-Craft purchased Thompson Boat Company of New York, Inc. at Cortland, NY in January 1962. Think about it. January of 62, the very year your boat came down the assembly line. I also recall that there was a new plant being built in the latter part of 62... definitely a lot going on that year.

The 1962 Corsair brochures are pretty hard to come by. Even noted Thompson historian Andreas Jordahl Rhude's collection starts with 1963.

Your boat is not only rare in numbers, but certainly in very fine condition. In fact, I would keep going over this boat, detailing it as much as you possibly can without changing a thing. It is, as you say, a time capsule.

I predict you will see the value of this boat grow significantly over the years. We are at the front end of recognizing these old fiberglass boats as classics as your boat is approaching 46 years old. To those of us who remember the dawn of fiberglass production, this is a pretty big milestone. When your boat reaches 50 years old, you'll have something to brag about. Honestly, there are some fiberglass boats older than your Chris. But not a lot by any means.

Even our own Chris-Craft Antique Boat Club, and now the ACBS have changed criteria for judging at shows to provide more opportunity for boats manufactured from this "new material."

You should be able to proudly tow your boat to a number of shows across the country and participate with the woodies.

As for a hull ID number. I have a 1964 Corsair, which I have been inside an out of from stem to stern. I cannot fin an ID number anywhere. This will be very unfortunate if none of us can positively ID exactly what we have. I do know of 4 Corsair owners with boats ranging from 62 to 67, and none of us can find our ID numbers.
Bill Basler

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Al Benton
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Post by Al Benton » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:53 am

Chris Craft & Corsair were a little inconsistent with that third letter in the hull numbering system. On some Series models it somewhat denotes the year of production but not always. On some of them, the number series following the letter series denotes the model year. I suppose they had their reasons.

Evidently, the first Corsairs were designated as 1963 models, according to Chris Craft - The Essential Guide. Thompson was purchased in January, 1962 but the Corsair line wasn't introduced until October of that year.

In reviewing all of this I came across the 1963 XL-155 Sunlounger, one of the first Corsairs introduced in late '62, which is more likely your boat, based on the year model. One way to tell which one you have is to measure the beam (width). The '63 XL-155 measures 7'-9" while the '67 Sport-V measures 6'-8".

Although the XL-155 isn't as rare (they produced 311 of them the first year), you have what appears to be a very well preserved one, which makes it very collectible, being one of the first successful fiberglass outboard runabouts that Chris Craft built.

Chris Craft had two other earlier attempts at entering the fiberglass boat business but both the Lake N Sea (1957) and the Silver Arrow (1958) weren't successful. The Lake N Sea, fiberglass encapsulated plywood, became known as the "Leak N Sink". The Silver Arrow was a planked hull runabout encapsulated in fiberglass and was too heavy, too expensive and developed de-lamination problems as well.

Al

BetsyS
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Post by BetsyS » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:54 pm

It appears to be the '67 Sport-V as the beam is 6'8". Also, looks exactly like the picture you sent, Al. We had contacted the marina we thought they purchased from, but were looking at records around 1962. We'll contact them again to check 1967. They also had brochures for most years available. Quite sure they purchased new, but with 1962 outboard? Curiouser and Curiouser! They may be able to help with Hull No. though. Will also check with NH DMV on off chance that they have it. Spoke with my insurance agent today, who said I should have it appraised to document value. Do you know of anyone in Maine or NH who might be qualified to do this? Or where would I even begin looking? Only thing "wrong" I've found is a few splits in the vinyl seats. Should I try to repair them or leave them alone? Attached pix were taken before we got it home and cleaned up, but show seats. Canvas is in perfect shape too. Isn't she pretty?
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thompsonboatboy
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Post by thompsonboatboy » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:03 pm

Chris-Craft purchased Thompson Boat Company of New York, Inc. in January 1962. The Corsair all-fiberglass line began to be developed AFTER this purchase.

Ground breaking for the new Corsair factory at Cortland, NY was on 13 September 1962. I do not think any boats were built prior to this facility being opened in early 1963.

I have a newspaper clipping dated 4-1-1963 showing a brand new XL-170 underway in the river with the Corsair plant in the background. It stated that production at that plant got underway "about a month ago."

I bet the 1963 model year brochure was the fist for the Corsair boat line. I do have a copy of it.

Andreas

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Post by thompsonboatboy » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:07 pm

Did some more digging. The news article from 13 September 1962 about the ground breaking mentioned that "Limited production of the all-fiberglass boats has alrady begun on Cortland Street in Homer to fascilitate the operation in January." Thompson had several locations in and around Cortland, including a rented space in nearby Homer, NY.

So, it appears as if some production of the Corsair line preceeded opening of the new plant in early 1963.

Andreas

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Al Benton
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Post by Al Benton » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:59 pm

Andreas, do you know if Thompson was still in production of their previous lines of boats when Chris Craft purchased them? They were building fiberglass outboard runabouts that must have been the forerunners of the new Chris Craft Corsair Sunloungers (which Thompson designed).

BetsyS, sounds like the '67 Sport-V to me then. The earlier Sunlounger looks almost identical to it but is 13" wider. Titles are often miss dated. The original owners may have put a used '62 outboard on her and kept it that way. That may have lead to the title date as well. Keep on researching the original title and dealer. One of them may turn up the hull number. It would definitely be worth finding with such a rare boat.

Al.

P.S. Oh, as for the seats, they may not be original. Not sure what "Silver Blue" would be but that's what The Essential Guide say they were originally. They look white in the B&W photo but may be a blueish silver material. The seat upholstery could possibly be re-stitched with some backing if they turn out to be original.

What I'm thinking is that with only 25 hull cards to browse through to see all of them, you may be able to talk the MM-CC Archive folks into seeing what they can find on interior colors for you. This may reveal if yours could be original.

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Post by Wood Commander » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:27 am

Look and see if your seats have tags underneath that say Thompon Boat Co. of Cortland, NY on them. Both my 1968 19' and my 1970 23' Lancers had these tags on the seat bottoms even that many years removed from 1962-63.

Lancers were a newer design than the maiden Corsair models, but on my boats there is an area about the size of the end of a cigarette package high on the Starboard side of the Transom right underneath the metal and rubber edge trim at the Gunwale where the side deck meets the hull (transom) side. I've heard of other boats having this pad just around the corner on the actual hull side aft also just under the gunwale. And on other boats just under the gunwale near the bow.
Also, some boats had the hull numbers paint stenciled or even just handwritten in yellow grease crayon on the interior rough fiberglass hull side up under the foredeck right up into the bow peak just under where the bow angles up to the very foremost point of the foredeck, probably just off to Starboard.
Also, in many states the hull number would be on the title. And in some cases the state division of watercraft or whatever state government agency that takes care of boats may be able to trace the hull numbers back through the registration number. I was actually able to do that in 1995 on our family's old Commander that was lost in a storage building fire in 1970! Luckily I still knew the registration numbers and after the state told me the hull number I was able to get the boat's archive information from The Mariner's Museum.

I don't know if your boat will have the numbers on the hull or not. It seems like even though some of the later models have these number pads, I haven't heard of anyone finding them on a Corsair yet. But Lancers were originally called Corsair Lancers and their hullside logos on the early models said Corsair instead of having the Lancer badge. And they definately have them so maybe there is hope!
Bret

1953 35' Commander "Adonis III"

1970 23' lancer project

thompsonboatboy
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Post by thompsonboatboy » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:30 am

Yes Al, Thompson Boat Company of New York, Inc. was in production when they were purchased by Chris-Craft in January 1962. They were making wooden lapstrake outboard and inboard-outboard boats 16 to 19 1/2 feet in length.

Thompson Boat of NY never made fiberglass boats. Their last wooden boats were shipped on 19 July 1965: hull IDs TUBZ 20 3510 to Washington, DC and TUCZ 18 2500 to Moravia, NY.

Thompson of NY did have a line of rubber boats using US Rubber Company's Royalite material for the hulls. This was a short lived endeavor from 1959 to about 1961.

Andreas

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Al Benton
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Post by Al Benton » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:00 am

Antreas,
I thought that was the case. I recall the topic being discussed prior to now. There is a paragraph in "The Legend of Chris Craft" by Jeffrey L. Rodengen that implies that Thompson Boat Company of New York were manufacturers of an abbreviated line of fiberglass outboard runabouts when they were purchased on Jan. 12, 1962 by Chris Craft Corp. It goes on to say that Chris Craft's purchase was designed to acquire more technical ability in fiberglass fabrication and to reestablish a presence in the outboard market after dropping the Kit Boat Division. His information came from footnotes in 1962 corporate financial records found in The Chris Craft Archival Collection, Mariner's Museum.

Your knowledge of Thompson Boat Company of New York far exceeds mine and possibly everyone's and I am definitely not questioning it. I'm just curious about the above paraphrased content of Rodengen's book.

Al

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Post by thompsonboatboy » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:28 am

Thompson Boat Company of New York, Inc. never made fiberglass boats. There is NO evidence to the contrary. I met with Ted Thompson, Jr. for about five hours last Spring and there wasn't even any planning by Thompson Boat to get into fiberglass. Just like his cousins at Thompson Bros. Boat Mfg. Co. in Peshtigo, WI; T & T Boats, Inc. at Wausaukee, WI; and Cruisers, Inc. at Oconto, WI - they all resisted the switch to fiberglass.

Glen Grady of Grady-White Boats told his newly hired regional sales manager Bing Fishman in 1968 that fiberglass was a fad and would go away! He left the near bankrupt company bearing his name soon after. Grady started out at Thompson in Peshtigo and was later at Cruisers, Inc. before splitting off to form Grady-White Boats in late 1959.

Maybe Rodengen was considering their experience with Royalite rubber??? Those hulls were molded by US Rubber in a facility in Rhode Island and then shipped to Thompson at Cortland. They were trimmed out at Thompson.

Andreas

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:50 am

Outstanding history lesson all. Thanks Andreas for the sharing of your knowledge.
Bill Basler

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Al Benton
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Post by Al Benton » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:05 pm

Maybe Rodengen read more into what was in the footnotes than was actually there, and assumed that Thompson had experience in fiberglass construction.

Chris Craft was researching construction methods using fiberglass elsewhere during that period that must have lead to setting up shop for production of the Corsair Line at the newly acquired Thompson facilities.

Thank you for the information.

Al

BetsyS
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Post by BetsyS » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:01 pm

We've decided to sell this boat. Just not enough time for motorcycles and boats. When the weather is right for one, it's also right for the other. If any of you are interested, please let us know. We have it posted in Trading Dock. Thanks again for all of your help!

Betsy

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Don Vogt
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1962 16' corsair

Post by Don Vogt » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:23 am

This is way cool. Sorry you are letting it go. Please let the new owner know that we would be thrilled to have them involved in the club if they are not already a member.

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