Cruiser Prices

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Cruiser Prices

Postby evansjw44 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:49 am

I just had my four year insurance survey. One of the items that always makes me wonder is how the surveyor determines current value. Does anyone know of the sale of a 35ft Sea Skiff that has been recently sold selling price, condition, equipment etc? Mine is a '67 Corinthian which has the plank topsides which makes it a bit rare. My favorite boatwright sold one recently for only $6k but it was in rough shape. He's got a '65 35ft Sea Hawk that he hasn't been able to sell even at $4k. And my survey says $20K???
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby tkhersom » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:54 am

IMHO: One of the biggest challenges with insurance value is that if the value is set too low (the real selling price) any minor damage will put the boat into the category of totaled (The repair is worth more than the boat itself or even a set percentage of the agreed value) and the insurance company will simply offer to pay your agreed value. Than you have to decide on paying the repair out of pocket yourself, taking the agreed value and looking for a different boat, or taking the money than trying to buy the boat back from the insurance company (because once they pay you your agreed value they now own your boat).

Just my thoughts on the matter. :wink:

Would love to know others opinions.
Troy in ANE - President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1958 CC 38' Connie "American Beauty"
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby jfrprops » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:22 am

I have determined to just risk it...now that I have a fiberglassic it seems less risky...clearly I would/could never have obtained insurance, other than the required liability coverage, for my Chris Craft cruiser...never did for over 20 years....like Troy says...where was the payoff in that? do the math.

The yearly premium would be so high to cover so little.....? Having a cruiser is thus relegated to a risk worth taking or one that must be taken.

I wanted to get 25K agree value on my recently acquired Fairchild Scout 30....a desirable boat, built to very high standards and currently selling for much more than that on the open market...twice that and more....but alas they demand the dreaded "survey". 25K. That is "walking away" money...not replacement $.
Truth is WE, OURSELVES, are the last vestige of really qualified antique boat "surveyors".....no way an old cruiser, no matter what the care and condition, will pass a modern survey to such an extent that the insurance becomes available/affordable.

Now I know in advance that my comments on surveys will generate the usual defensive arguments....but I am just expressing my opinion based on long experience.


John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby joanroy » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:37 pm

Market value is always driven by supply and demand based on comparisons to current or recent sales. There is a great supply of old wooden cruiser and a much smaller number of prospective buyers, therefore less value. The way I see it, there are three types of folks who buy antique cruisers. A very very few with bags of disposable income who just want one and don't really care what it costs. Guys like me who are able to own, repair and maintain ourselves within a budget. And dreamers who think they can own one for cheap, but soon find out they don't t have the skill, ambition, or time to take care of it and can't afford to pay someone else to do it for them. The dreamers usually end up being the last owner and the end of the boats life.

Personally, I don't care about the money value of my old cruiser. I love working on it, love looking at it, hanging out on it, cruising on it and just love the whole Woody boat life style. That's worth more than any amount of money. When I'm done I'll either pass it down in the family or give her away to the next right owner. Money well spent!
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby boat_art » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:23 pm

Im with John in VA.
Never have insured my '56 Connie 46' and dont plan to, outside of liability of course. If she goes down, its my fault and I will go find another one. (or take up stamp collecting)
"Truth is WE, OURSELVES, are the last vestige of really qualified antique boat "surveyors"" is spot on John!
I used to keep up my surveyor credentials but I havent in years. I have no time or interest in climbing around anything but wood boats and there is very little call for that.
When customers wanted insurance surveys the insurance companies have accepted my restoration records and photos.

Tom
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby evansjw44 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:04 pm

All interesting responses. I need to rephrase my post. I wondering where the surveyor get the number for market value.
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby joanroy » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:41 pm

I'd go ahead and ask your surveyor how he came up with value. My last survey on the JoanRoy 36' double stateroom came in at $20K, same number as yours. Maybe that's a generic value their using for all old cruisers?
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby jfrprops » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:54 pm

Good advice in all these post.

Jim Evans: as suggested maybe they have a generic base value....like the county tax people do...tax on my CC was less than 2 bucks a year!

????

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby robertpaul » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:31 am

When I first decided to by a cruiser almost 40 years ago, the market was flush with wooden boats as fibreglass pushed the woodies aside. Glass was very expensive, even the used ones, but the wooden cruisers were available for very little in comparison. I bought a 15 year old Owens and started fixing it up, got a lot of use out of it and sold it at a profit. I developed a desire to stay with wood even though we were, by then, able to afford glass. We saw our current boat for sale. It needed both engines rebuilt and some cosmetic work, but the hull was fine. Good surveyors were about, and once we knew what we had (I went through the bilge for hours, the survey was for the marina and insurance) we offered less than half the asking price and the rest is history. If I was young today, I would find the market for boats to be quite different and I may have gone another way. Big fibreglass cruisers are now cheap and plentiful. I think they depreciate faster than a new car. Of course there are many fewer wooden cruisers available, but the number of folks wanting one and/or who have been exposed to one in their life, is shrinking much faster. Lastly, there are marinas fees and the increasing difficulty in finding a marina that will accept a wooden cruiser. Still, I get countless hours (and I do mean countless) of peace restoring our boat and I look forward to using her when I finish.
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby jim g » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:50 pm

Theres been a Corinthian for sale at my marina in Georgia for a year or so now. He was around 25,000 and he just dropped it to 19,900 or 19,500. Its a nice boat came down from Illinois about 14 to 16 years ago and has always been under cover. This might be the one your surveyor saw. As I think the owner has it listed on several of the internet boat for sale sites.

Oh. The boat is in the 40' or so range.
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby jfrprops » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:58 pm

Nope, unless it is showroom new/restored....no one will (or according to the market SHOULD) pay that price....

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby tkhersom » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:19 pm

The way I see it, there are three types of folks who buy antique cruisers. A very very few with bags of disposable income who just want one and don't really care what it costs. Guys like me who are able to own, repair and maintain ourselves within a budget. And dreamers who think they can own one for cheap, but soon find out they don't t have the skill, ambition, or time to take care of it and can't afford to pay someone else to do it for them. The dreamers usually end up being the last owner and the end of the boats life.
The real challenge is trying to determine which category we really truly fit in. I like to think I am in the second category but often wonder if I am really just one of the dreamers, but have not been honest enough with myself to admit it yet. :shock:

I guess only time will tell us the truth.
Troy in ANE - President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1958 CC 38' Connie "American Beauty"
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22607/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby Bud B » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:18 am

I've been living this unfortunate reality for quite a while now trying to move my 67 40ft Corinthian FBSF, which I have owned for over 3o years. You post the price you really feel its worth, but the reality of the number of those remaining in the market who can actually deal with these beauties is dwindling quickly. If the right guy comes along, at age 70, I am now ready to accept any reasonable offe from someone who will keep her going. Swap me an express. http://www.tradingdock.org/4005
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby jfrprops » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:42 pm

aHH! Great Boat....but I am 70 also....not for me.

among us old guys we would likely all think that a fair price for such a well maintained classic....but the sad fact is that the market is almost nonexistent especially when one of your big priorities is to see her go to a caring and competent home.

I sold my cruiser, granted not as nice as yours, after 15 years of stewardship...for one dollar....to a guy the talked the talk...(don't yet know if he will walk the walk).

If you find THE GUY....be easy on the money.

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby tkhersom » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:01 pm

I had American Beauty on the market this past summer. A number of prop kickers, but not one that was interested enough to even come and look at her. :?

Then again I have decided my next one is not going to be wood, even though I LOVE them.
Troy in ANE - President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1958 CC 38' Connie "American Beauty"
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22607/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby jfrprops » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:54 pm

AB and the Boston boat are truly high end examples of CC's best work.....and no serious takers....sign of the times I guess...but what nice boats...thanks to you both for your stewardship and courage.

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby Doug P » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:53 pm

Troy, I also had a boat listed. what I found was that most wanted photos...turns out... for their collection. Most serious lookers were from Europe.
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby tkhersom » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:52 pm

Funny you say that Doug.

I have an acquaintance that shipped his Connie to Milasia. Not exactly Europe but not the US of A.
Troy in ANE - President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1958 CC 38' Connie "American Beauty"
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22607/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby Bud B » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:41 pm

Shipping overseas is an interesting avenue. Or shipping it anywhere for that matter. In my case, the Florida market is probably worse than anywhere in the US for wood. I have fantasized that if someone would agree to pay me the expenses to run the boat to New England, or especially to the Great Lakes via the Great Circle, I would hand them the keys when I got it there. Any takers? I'd like one last hurrah with her, and a long, paid-for cruise would do it. http://www.tradingdock.org/4005
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Re: Cruiser Prices

Postby tkhersom » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:36 am

Funny, Puff was just purchased out of Michigan and shipped to Florida. I still think the PNW is the most active market for these old woodys.

I could go back and edit/fix my mistake but it is more fun to let everyone know the drrot wants everyone to know that I failed spelling in grade school. (or I have been hanging out with Matt Smith too much.)
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Troy in ANE - President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1958 CC 38' Connie "American Beauty"
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22607/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat
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