Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Framing, planking and fairing. Repair, or reconstruction. If it's hull related, you'll find it here.

Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby joanroy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:36 am

Rob, great work on the Dutchman and plank edge repairs. That'll paint up nice! I've learned over the years the years, with any restoration, knowing what NOT to throw away is key. Thanks for the progress report.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Wed May 03, 2017 10:13 pm

I haven't posted for a while because I have been thwarted by inconsistent weather. It is not warm enough yet to attach the inner bottom or glue up a couple of frame repairs which must precede the bottom installation. The next five days may set a consecutive days record for cold and rain in Toronto for May, so I am stuck. I am pre-drilling the inner bottom, adding another coat of bilge paint and sealing, but that is pretty tedious stuff that I am doing in my garage at home. Installing the new plywood inner bottom should begin next week if the weather finally improves. Here is a picture of the final dry fit of the port planks I repaired when the weather in feb and march was better than April and may.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby joanroy » Fri May 05, 2017 5:44 am

The weather sucks. Launched the Joan Roy Wednesday thinking I'd get some varnishing done in the water, but the forecast is wet and cold. At least she's in and the rain won't interfere with my favorite boating activity. Boat Napping.

Can't wait to see the bottom going back onto Elude. Very exciting!
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby jfrprops » Fri May 05, 2017 8:30 am

Excellent progress....really nice continuing coverage you are providing...>AND.....it is still on Boat Buzz! Traffic on this site is being hurt by Fakebook IMHO....

keep at it, nice work.

John in Va.
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1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Sat May 27, 2017 3:00 pm

Well..... it has been raining and cool and generally nasty. The floor under the shelter gets wet when water runs under the bottom and makes working underneath a major pain in the butt. So I don't bother. But today I was able to get back at it and finally started installing the port inner bottom. I dropped the keelson as well and re-installed it with sealant/adhesive. The plywood panels I did today went in nicely too. I had predrilled them to allow for the temporary screws so it was just a matter of applying the goop and fastening them up. As I install outer planks later on, I will remove the temporary screws as I go along. With any luck the weather will continue to dry out and I will be able to press on. I also finished up repairs to the port side frames. Sorry for not posting more but I did not have anything new to share. I will post more often now that I can work in a dry environment. Lake Ontario is now only 2 feet below the level of the boat yard where Elude sits.... I have never seen the water this high.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby joanroy » Sun May 28, 2017 6:16 pm

Nice fit on your inner ply. What did you use for bedding? Guess you'll have to geterdone before she floats away. Looking Good!
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby jfrprops » Mon May 29, 2017 9:24 am

great post...keep them coming....unreal dedication and work....

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:14 pm

Joanroy... a while ago we discussed how to best fasten up the inner bottom and you proposed using nylon brads fired in with compressed air. Yesterday and today I was able to put up two 8' panels on the port side (one per day) where the curve of the hull becomes more pronounced as it goes forward. Working upside-down against gravity and all that, I was pleased how the screws easily drew the plywood panels (4'x8') tight to the frames. I am not sure brads would do as well unless it was possible to jam the plywood hard to the frame before fastening. Doing that upside down would be hard. Anyway, it is working out fine and I limit my time to 4 hours, hence only one panel per day. Leveraging the big panels up into place has also been surprisingly easy using the system I posted last fall. Here is a pic of that approach. I would have taken some pictures today but I find that the polyurethane adhesive/sealant gets on just about everything and I didn't want to mess up the camera.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby joanroy » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:37 pm

I like the 2X4 clamps. Great idea! i get what your saying about the screws pulling in the panels. Your working against gravity. The plastic fasteners would be more appropriate on a flipped hull on a epoxy type bottom replacement. Carry On!
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:44 am

The port 4'x8' bottom panels are now installed and I have dropped the stbd panels and brought them home to cleanup, pre drill and seal. I hope to get them in by the end of the week. The process works pretty slick but it is still necessary to be finicky cleaning the keel rabbet and ensuring that the joints are all flush. Midships is where I did not have to replace several frames as the originals are in fine condition. Every screw pulled up tight despite only penetrating one inch into the frames. Same story on the keel where I used shorter screws (1") that only penetrated 5/8". I will post again when I am finished but recall that I do have some minor repair to do on the keel near the bow.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:23 pm

This past week I installed the remaining stbd bottom panels. It went very well and what remains are the small pieces at the bow. Those will be easy once I do some small repairs to the stbd part of the keel. The corner of the rabbet is a bit deteriorated so I am going to cut out the naughty bits and splice in some nice white oak, then I will bevel it with a chisel. I am looking forward to starting with the outer planks in a week or so. They will be a snap to handle even if they are up to 15' long. Over the next few days I will use intermediate frames to connect the seams between the inner bottom panels. Here a few pics I took today.
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Last edited by robertpaul on Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby joanroy » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:10 pm

Gotta be pretty darn satisfying and exciting to look down into the bilge and see a bottom again instead of ground. Awesome Work!
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:16 pm

I have just finished installing the last of the inner bottom at the bow. Next steps are to install the intermediary frames, which at the bow will draw the planks flush to one another. They are pretty close now but the intermediaries will finish them off. I have to install the battens between the large panels and then the rest of the intermediaries. Here are some pics from today. The squeeze-out looks messy because I used a scraper to 'harvest' some of the excess to tool onto the rabbet for the next plank. Going fishing tomorrow.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:19 pm

I have been installing intermediate frames and have reached the midway point, working from the bow to the stern. The next two pairs are under the fuel tanks so there will be some contortions to get them in. I will likely skip them for now and press on with the ones under the engines and back to the stern. I am using a lot of pan head particle board screws. They do a nice job not marring the surface and they do a good job spreading the pressure somewhat. Here are a few pictures.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:14 pm

The following pictures show the result of my efforts to place intermediary frames on the stbd side, under the fuel tanks, amidship. I will take some more pictures tomorrow when I do the port side to illustrate the process in more detail. For now I will just explain what I did. Not being a performer in 'Cirque du Soleil', there was no way for me to get under the tanks to measure the spacing let alone tack the intermediaries down. Consequently I worked from the chine by measuring and marking the spacing oriented to the forward main frame. I was able to reach about 18 inches toward the keel for the second mark, and still be able to drill a drywall screw through (at both the inner and outer marks). With the screws protruding from the bottom, I measured the spacing for the next two frames and drilled two screws for each from the bottom. So, I had six screws sticking out of the bottom. I took an intermediary frame and held it hard against each pair of screws and marked a line on each in turn with a Sharpie. This left me with the lines along which I drilled the small pilot holes for the temporary screws. I removed the drywall screws. Using a small piece of scrap intermediary frame with the centre marked on the end, I marked the inside of the hull at the holes the drywall screws left in order to be able to line up the edge of the frame near the chine and further towards the keel. I put adhesive/sealant on the frame, tooled it, and gently placed it lining up the edge marks, fastened the chine end with a screw driver while I kept my eye on the mark. Then I fastened it again further towards the keel while keeping the frame on the second edge mark. Once that was done I got on my crawler and drove in the temporary screws working form the chine to the keel. To my utter amazement it worked out. I am using 1088 Meranti Marine Plywood for these frames. I like working with it, it bends nicely and takes a fastener very well. I should mention that the main frames are originals. Although a bit stained they are in near pristine condition.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby joanroy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:27 am

Rob, I noticed in your photo of the frame repair the back side of what appears to be your interior covering paneling. Do you know what that stuff is called and what Its made of?
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:50 pm

jr, I don't know what the proper term is but I would describe it as a type of hardboard. It is pressed fibre and not plywood. The inboard side is smooth and the outboard side is rough. I will take some close-up pics later in the week. Tomorrow we leave for a few days in the Thousand Islands. I believe the function these panels serve is to direct rain water that runs down the salon windows so that it does not end up dripping on the chine. Consequently I will replace any pieces I had to remove when fixing frames. Here are few pics for now.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby Denis D » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:38 pm

It looks like tempered Masonite.

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:40 am

Thanks Denis. It has all those characteristics so I am going with your suggestion. This will make it easy for me to see if I can get replacement material for the original. Thanks again.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:55 pm

I have finally installed all of the intermediate frames. As is always the case, it took much longer than I expected due to other summer activities and, being honest, after the 40th one, it gets somewhat tedious. I have done some minor touch up on the original part of the port chine that I identified several years ago as needing some rot cleaned out and a few small dutchmen put in. The rot was quite shallow (about 1/4 inch) and I just glued and clamped it up today. So, next week I will begin to dry fit the outer planks. I will try very hard to get them permanently installed before the cold weather prevents using adhesives. No promises.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:38 pm

Big day today! I dry fit the first of the outer planks. In order to make sure it was positioned correctly, I made up a couple of templates of the next two planks up from the first garboard plank as you will see in the pics below. It worked out fine and I will dry fit the port plank next. Then I will install the rest of the garboard planks and then work up from the bow. I soaked the first plank for about four hours and it bent in easily and kept its shape after drying.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby joanroy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:53 pm

Looks Great Rob! How will you bed and fasten the planks? I would think you'd want the seams sealed and water tight as plywood doesn't swell much. 5200?
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:10 pm

Thanks JR. The inner bottom is solidly glued with a good quality polyurethane sealant/adhesive which is suitable for below waterline applications per the manufacturer. It also states this on the tube. It has cured perfectly and has the same properties as 5200. I have trimmed off some of the squeeze-out and found that all the seam voids (all are less than 1/32") are well filled. The bond is also extremely strong. No question in my mind that the boat could float happily on the inner bottom as it stands. The issue for me is that in Canada 5200 is $28/tube while the other product is about $7 (for a slightly larger tube I might add). So, I will bed all the planks in this product with the expectation that it will outlast me by 20 years anyway. It seems to me that this is analogous to buying generic vs brand-name drugs.....put the word 'marine' or an anchor on a product and jack the price by a factor of four. As for screws, I have consulted with a restorer who swears that ss is fine in our fresh water environment. I have pulled lots of stainless screws out of Elude's bottom that pre-date our 1989 ownership, and they are as true as when they were made. I have also pulled ss bolts and galvanized steel fasteners out of the bottom that were used at the factory in 1937, as I recounted in a much earlier post. So there you have my decisions on these two contentious issues. I tacked the port garboard plank at the bow today and it went in easy as pie. Tomorrow I will dry fit the next stb and port garboard planks which are 14' long.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby joanroy » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:05 am

I agree, if your in fresh water stainless is OK. My 1948 36 Double Stateroom has always been in salt water so bronze would be my only option. Although my boat is 11 years newer, our bottom construction is pretty much exactly the same. The double stateroom didn't change much from prewar to post war. It's a great design and very solidly constructed hull. My original bottom is still hanging in there and has been refastened, but who knows, down the road I may consider replanking. If that time comes, I'll be referring back to this post for information and inspiration.

I'll be honest with you, I'm a little on the fence about useing plywood outer planking, but I also know how difficult it is to source good quality solid planking these days. I think the plywood planks will be fine, but you may want to consider using an epoxy barrier coat prior to bottom painting. Kinda like they do with the 5200 no soak style bottoms on the smaller boats. I think the Idea of the barrier coating is to keep water from infiltrating into the inner cores of the plywood over time. Maybe not necessary, but just a suggestion from an arm chair quarterback. Carry On!
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:24 am

Thanks JR. The inner bottom has and the outer planks will be, treated with cpes. Time will tell, but I am satisfied that the ply will provide us with many years of safe boating.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Postby robertpaul » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:37 pm

Just a small update. I have dry fit several planks and it has gone well. The pictures below show how I continue to use the hinged 2x4s to lift bottom pieces into place. They worked really well with the large plywood sheets for the inner bottom so I thought I would see how it would go with they outer planks. I was particularly concerned about the planks that run from the bow as they have quite a bend in them once in place. I soaked the second plank up from the keel (you will see in the pics that it is still wet), inserted it into the braces at the bow, placed the aft end on the 2x4 gizmo, and lifted it up and jammed a 2x4 prop under it to keep it in place. All I had to do then was push the plank against the garboard plank and it was done. It took less than two minutes to have it in place.

I am disappointed that so many good projects are being lightly covered on the Facebook page. I believe that interest has been siphoned off this sight to the point that I think I will call this my last post. I hope that folks have gotten something from it despite my amateur standing.
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