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Framing, planking and fairing. Repair, or reconstruction. If it's hull related, you'll find it here.

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Steve Johnson
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Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Wed May 14, 2014 1:19 pm

Having followed the forum for a while, I am needing some advice for a novice. I have a 1963 17 ft. Custom Ski Boat that I am restoring. I have it completely stripped to bare wood. All wood is original, but in good condition. It is sitting on blocks in my garage and has been dry for about 2 years. It will be about 3 more years until I get a chance to get her back in the water.
My plan is 2 coats of CPES, then fill gaps between bottom planks with 3M 5200, then barrier coats and finally a couple of coats of bottom paint. The goal is to have a boat that I do not need to soak.
I am hoping with all the 5200, barrier coats and bottom paint, it will seal well enough to stay dry.
My concern is that once I put it in the water, the boards might swell and push the 5200 out of the cracks. Should I be concerned with this? I won't have the luxury of leaving it in the water all the time.
Any help would be appreciated!

Jim Bell
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Re: Another new member

Post by Jim Bell » Wed May 14, 2014 3:30 pm

Welcome, Barrier coats? InterProtect 2000E?

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drrot
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Re: Another new member

Post by drrot » Wed May 14, 2014 3:35 pm

Don't worry about the 5200 oozing out. It will pretty much stay there. If the boards swell the 5200 won't move. The bottom will ripple. If you are going to fill the seams with something fill them with Slik-Seam. It will ooze out if the boards swell
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1931 Chris-Craft 26' #898 "Ashes"
1929 Chris-Craft 28' #3107 http://www.finewoodboats.com/1929%20Chris28.htm
1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
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Kerry Price
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Re: Another new member

Post by Kerry Price » Wed May 14, 2014 3:53 pm

Steve,
Without knowing the condition of the inner bottom and bottom frames it is impossible to receive any sound advise on how yu should proceed. But at nearly 50 years of age and no telling how this boat was used and how well it was taken care of you should assume the worst and hope for the best.
There are no shortcuts to making a no soak bottom. I would recommend that you do a bit more research. For starters get a copy of Don Danenberg's "How to Restore Your Wooden Runabout. This book gives step by step instructions for properly applying 5200 for bottom application. There are some who also use a hard epoxy, sometimes called "West System" but I don't know who to send you to regarding this. Either way my advise is to do it right the first time.
1946 20' Custom Runabout: R-20-092
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http://www.chris-craft.org/registry/vie ... oat_id=532

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Doug P
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Re: Another new member

Post by Doug P » Wed May 14, 2014 6:07 pm

Steve,,
Everybody has some good solutions, can you post a few pictures to show how your bottom is ? (BOAT BOTTOM)

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Wed May 14, 2014 7:23 pm

Jim Bell wrote:Welcome, Barrier coats? InterProtect 2000E?
that's correct. According to what I have read on this forum and Don Danenberg's book, looking at Interlux 2000E.

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Wed May 14, 2014 7:36 pm

drrot wrote:Don't worry about the 5200 oozing out. It will pretty much stay there. If the boards swell the 5200 won't move. The bottom will ripple. If you are going to fill the seams with something fill them with Slik-Seam. It will ooze out if the boards swell
Looked at Jamestown website and they say that after applying Slik Seam, the boat needs to go right into the water. I have about 3 years until it hits the lake. Looks like I need to do some more research on it. thanks for the quick reply

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Wed May 14, 2014 7:38 pm

Doug P wrote:Steve,,
Everybody has some good solutions, can you post a few pictures to show how your bottom is ? (BOAT BOTTOM)
Doug, I will get some pix this weekend and post them. thanks!
Doug, Too lazy/busy to get you pictures last weekend. I will be under the boat this weekend applying CPES and will snap some pix then and post. I am getting conflicting info on order of restoration. I need to apply CPES and stain. From Danenberg's book, I read that one coat of CPES, then light sanding, then stain, then another CPES. Seems like I read somewhere on the forum that the stain will get blotchy if I apply it over the CPES. Any recommendations?
Last edited by Steve Johnson on Fri May 30, 2014 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Wed May 14, 2014 7:57 pm

Kerry Price wrote:Steve,
Without knowing the condition of the inner bottom and bottom frames it is impossible to receive any sound advise on how yu should proceed. But at nearly 50 years of age and no telling how this boat was used and how well it was taken care of you should assume the worst and hope for the best.
There are no shortcuts to making a no soak bottom. I would recommend that you do a bit more research. For starters get a copy of Don Danenberg's "How to Restore Your Wooden Runabout. This book gives step by step instructions for properly applying 5200 for bottom application. There are some who also use a hard epoxy, sometimes called "West System" but I don't know who to send you to regarding this. Either way my advise is to do it right the first time.
Kerry, It has been awhile since I read Don Danenberg's book, but from what I remember, I would need to flip the boat, pull off all outer planks, apply 5200 and re-install the planking. No room in my garage for that project. I was hoping to CPES, caulk/fill the seams, Interlux barrier coats and then bottom paint.
I do not know the full history of the boat but it spent it's first 45 years on Lake Tahoe and I believe there was a full restoration about 10 years ago. Inner bottom and frame seems very sound. No sign of rot. After sanding, some of the bungs fell out, but all screws were tight, so I used Famowood to fill the bungholes that needed filling. I plan on posting pix this weekend.

Trick414
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Re: Another new member

Post by Trick414 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:00 am

Steve,

I just ran across this thread.

At some point in the future I'm going to put up a web page as a resource for how NOT to restore a wood boat.

I have plenty of experience at doing it wrong.

Anyway, I tried doing what you are suggesting. It didn't work for me. Fortunately, it shouldn't cost you a whole lot of money in the grand scheme of things to give it a try. Your boat could definitely be in different shape than mine was at the time.

In my case, when we got the old bottom paint/crud off, to my inexperienced eye it looked ok.
IMAG0155.jpg

We used SikaFlex 291 caulk since it supposedly stretches and compresses.
IMAG0160.jpg

It looked pretty good once we finished sealing and painting.
IMAG0173.jpg

We put on a new top deck, cleaned up the sides, etc. and took her out for a leak test (about 2 years after doing the bottom).
IMAG0902.jpg

It actually did pretty well on that first test. Minimal leaking that the bilge pump could handle no problem.

Back at the shop after a day or two we realized that most of the caulk had been pushed out by the planks swelling and moving around.

After all the experience we had gained in the last two years doing all the other work (and numerous missteps), I figured we would tackle the bottom according to Danenburg.

Oh, the things you find when you take off a "good" bottom:
IMAG0076.jpg
IMAG0060.jpg

It was more learning, and I know my next one will be much better, but it is definitely good to go for another twenty years at least. Doesn't leak a drop.

IMAG0296.jpg
IMAG0337.jpg
IMAG0355.jpg


Anyway, hope that gives you some food for thought.
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cuckter
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Re: Another new member

Post by cuckter » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:56 pm

Hi. You might want to review the final comments on "maintenance of a 10 year old 5200 bottom", posted earlier on this blog. I also question what to do with my 17' sportsman bottom. However, I spoke to Don D. I decided to do the job right and I now have a leak free bottom with no leaks during during use this summer.

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:16 pm

Trick414 wrote:Steve,

I just ran across this thread.

At some point in the future I'm going to put up a web page as a resource for how NOT to restore a wood boat.

I have plenty of experience at doing it wrong.

Anyway, I tried doing what you are suggesting. It didn't work for me. Fortunately, it shouldn't cost you a whole lot of money in the grand scheme of things to give it a try. Your boat could definitely be in different shape than mine was at the time.

In my case, when we got the old bottom paint/crud off, to my inexperienced eye it looked ok.
IMAG0155.jpg

We used SikaFlex 291 caulk since it supposedly stretches and compresses.
IMAG0160.jpg

It looked pretty good once we finished sealing and painting.
IMAG0173.jpg

We put on a new top deck, cleaned up the sides, etc. and took her out for a leak test (about 2 years after doing the bottom).
IMAG0902.jpg

It actually did pretty well on that first test. Minimal leaking that the bilge pump could handle no problem.

Back at the shop after a day or two we realized that most of the caulk had been pushed out by the planks swelling and moving around.

After all the experience we had gained in the last two years doing all the other work (and numerous missteps), I figured we would tackle the bottom according to Danenburg.

Oh, the things you find when you take off a "good" bottom:
IMAG0076.jpg
IMAG0060.jpg

It was more learning, and I know my next one will be much better, but it is definitely good to go for another twenty years at least. Doesn't leak a drop.

IMAG0296.jpg
IMAG0337.jpg
IMAG0355.jpg


Anyway, hope that gives you some food for thought.
You have a beautiful boat. At this point, I think I will try the SikaFlex, then 2 coats of Interlux barrier coat and two coats of paint. As you said, not much will be invested to try it. When I get her on the water, I will make sure bilge pump is working!
I was planning on working on her this weekend, but 100 heat here in KS will probably slow me down. I will keep you posted on progress.
Steve

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:16 am

Steve Johnson wrote:
Trick414 wrote:Steve,

I just ran across this thread.

At some point in the future I'm going to put up a web page as a resource for how NOT to restore a wood boat.

I have plenty of experience at doing it wrong.

Anyway, I tried doing what you are suggesting. It didn't work for me. Fortunately, it shouldn't cost you a whole lot of money in the grand scheme of things to give it a try. Your boat could definitely be in different shape than mine was at the time.

In my case, when we got the old bottom paint/crud off, to my inexperienced eye it looked ok.
IMAG0155.jpg

We used SikaFlex 291 caulk since it supposedly stretches and compresses.
IMAG0160.jpg

It looked pretty good once we finished sealing and painting.
IMAG0173.jpg

We put on a new top deck, cleaned up the sides, etc. and took her out for a leak test (about 2 years after doing the bottom).
IMAG0902.jpg

It actually did pretty well on that first test. Minimal leaking that the bilge pump could handle no problem.

Back at the shop after a day or two we realized that most of the caulk had been pushed out by the planks swelling and moving around.

After all the experience we had gained in the last two years doing all the other work (and numerous missteps), I figured we would tackle the bottom according to Danenburg.

Oh, the things you find when you take off a "good" bottom:
IMAG0076.jpg
IMAG0060.jpg

It was more learning, and I know my next one will be much better, but it is definitely good to go for another twenty years at least. Doesn't leak a drop.

IMAG0296.jpg
IMAG0337.jpg
IMAG0355.jpg


Anyway, hope that gives you some food for thought.
You have a beautiful boat. At this point, I think I will try the SikaFlex, then 2 coats of Interlux barrier coat and two coats of paint. As you said, not much will be invested to try it. When I get her on the water, I will make sure bilge pump is working!
I was planning on working on her this weekend, but 100 heat here in KS will probably slow me down. I will keep you posted on progress.
Steve
Against advice, I went ahead and caulked the bottom with SikaFlex 291. thought it was worth the chance that it might help seal the bottom! If it gets squeezed out, then, like you said, "It is a learning experience"
I am now ready to put on barrier coats and bottom paint. I was looking at Jamestown Distr. site and saw the Interlux Inter-Protect 2000E is recommended for fiberglass. I assume it is OK for wood also? How many coats would you recommend? And then it said I need to put a coat of bottom paint on shortly after the last barrier coat and not to let the final barrier coat sit a long time without a layer of bottom paint. Your thoughts?
And finally, I am reading about hard or soft bottom paint. Since this boat will not reside in the water at all times, I assume I should go with hard anti-fouling paint.
Thanks for your help.

Trick414
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Re: Another new member

Post by Trick414 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:46 am

1. CPES - gallon kit
2. Interlux 2000E - gallon kit
3. Petit 1959 Hard Copper Bottom Paint - 2 quarts


You'll go crazy reading too much about these, I know I did. For instance, the 2000E talks about fiberglass. If you hunt around enough, you'll find some official info from Interlux about it being good with wood, as well. It's just that the more you hunt around, the more you will get twisted up.

Stick with the plan, and since you are only going to be spending about $500 don't worry too much.

I bet it works pretty well for you (I didn't have the CPES or 2000E on mine). Just keep an eagle eye on it. Always expect the bottom to fail at any point (life jackets, ability to get to land, run it easy, etc.)

I bet you get at least a few years out of it.
1951 Riviera 18' KLC
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Doug P
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Re: Another new member

Post by Doug P » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:52 am

I believe the bottom color of your boat is copper bronze for which i use Pettit Old Salem Hard Racing copper bronze.
I see no reason for anti fouling paint unless you are moored in salt water for a long time

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mbigpops
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Re: Another new member

Post by mbigpops » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:49 pm

Four coats of 2000E barrier coat primer.

Only mix what you will use for that application. Even if you mix and seal the can you will have giant hockey puck the next day.

Mark
1953 CC Rocket Runabout "Rocket Man"

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:15 pm

I have already put 2 coats of CPES on all below the water line wood (plus a quart that spilled on garage floor) and have caulked the same (except the garage floor). :oops:
Thanks for clarifying the Interlux question.
Doug, this boat actually did come with black bottom according to original dealer check-off sheet and paint/stain/varnish matrix I got from Mariners Museum. It said "racing black" I like the look of the copper bottom, but want to be true to the boat. I have not researched paint brands yet so any idea if Pettit has a racing black? if not, I will call Jamestown Disty and ask them. Here is a link to YouTube that I found that is an identical boat to mine. Bottom looks black on it also. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6aaEBZ7Uyg
Doug, I also owe you pictures of the bottom from an earlier post, but none came out good while laying on a creeper under the boat.

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Doug P
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Re: Another new member

Post by Doug P » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:22 pm

The spec sheet read black/copper. I assumed a black boot stripe and copper bottom.
I was not in error...only mistaken as usual :oops: .

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:42 pm

Doug,
The bottom is black with red and white bootstripe. I like the red and white. it keeps it consistent with the red and white interior.

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JimF
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Re: Another new member

Post by JimF » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:04 am

The black "racing paint" contained graphite to make it a slicker bottom and therefore a faster boat. I did a quick Google search and only came up with graphite powder to add to epoxy and I don't think you want that. There must have been some kind of graphite paint available in the pre=epoxy days but you need to do a better search than I did.

Do not put CPES on the boat before the stain. It will definitely affect the stain penetration. Sand, stain, 2 coats CPES or sealer, then varnish.
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Greg Wallace
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Re: Another new member

Post by Greg Wallace » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:10 am

I'm almost positive that the 1960's era black bottom paint applied to the ski boats and Holidays did not have graphite.
Greg Wallace 23 Custom 22166 former Chris-Craft dealer Russells Point, Oh.

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:14 pm

I have not found any that contain graphite. I believe that process was not developed in the early 60's. I have ordered Pettit Unepoxy Black for the bottom. According to Jamestown Disty tech support, it is a good hard paint that should hold up to trailering. Only time will tell!

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Doug P
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Re: Another new member

Post by Doug P » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:25 pm

Steve, I have Pettit unepoxy on my bottom (boat that is)
It does take several days to really harden, but then its real good. I painted ad rolled first coat and sprayed next two coats.

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:01 pm

Any reason to lightly sand the boat bottom before applying InterProtect 2000E? I have 2 coats of CPES on it and did not know if I needed to rough it up before the barrier coats.

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Re: Another new member

Post by Jim Bell » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:33 pm

I think not. In fact, CPES must cure for 48 hours prior to applying InterProtect 2000e.

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:09 pm

I now have 2 coats of CPES, 3 coats of Interprotect 2000e, and 2 coats of Pettit Unepoxy Black on the bottom. The boat has been sitting on blocks while I did all this work, and I am now ready to lower it onto the trailer. Any idea how long to wait to lower it after the last coat of bottom paint? I am worried about the boat sticking to the bunks on the trailer since it will be at least a year until I get the boat in the water. I know temp and humidity affect cure time on paint. Current temps ranging from 60-80 degrees. It would be somewhat embarrassing to back the boat down the boat ramp and have it stuck to the trailer or peel off the bottom paint!

Steve Johnson
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Re: Another new member

Post by Steve Johnson » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:49 pm

Well, after 1 1/2 year hiatus, I am about ready to continue work on my '63 Custom Ski Boat. Boat bottom is finished. Stain and one coat of Pettit Old Salem 2108 sealer applied on top part of boat. Weather turned bad after 1st coat of sealer, then I moved to new house, then honey-do projects, so...nothing accomplished on it for awhile.
First coat of sealer gave pretty good coverage. Do you recommend putting second coat of sealer prior to varnish or is one coat sufficient? If second coat needed, should I sand between coats?
During our move, I misplaced all my boat notes. What varnish do you recommend after sealing? I am ready to order varnish now. Wanted to wait until freezing weather is over and to give varnish bubbles to disappear from shipping.
I also recall discussions regarding badger hair brushes vs. other bristle. Any thoughts? Locally I have seen white and black china bristle brushes.
Thanks for helping out a newbie!

joanroy
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Re: Another new member

Post by joanroy » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:49 am

I use Interlux filler stain and one coat of sealer. Do not sand sealer and I apply Captains varnish coats with an inch and a half white China bristle angle sash brush. Light coats, dip the tip of the brush only. Holidays are better than runs. The next coat covers holidays, but runs have to be sanded out. Always follow manufactures instructions on side of can for best results. Have Fun!

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