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Hull leak

Framing, planking and fairing. Repair, or reconstruction. If it's hull related, you'll find it here.

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SAMBA
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Hull leak

Post by SAMBA » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:05 am

My 1953 34ft Sedan Cabin Cruiser has an almost completely dry hull. However, the inside hull on the starboard side has a slow continuous trickle in the region just forward of what appears to be the mounting region for the prop shaft strut. There is an approx 1/2" thick plank 6" x 20" or so mounted just forward of that region, flush to the inside of the hull, and the trickle emerges from the edge of it. After running the boat in open water it leaks faster, and my bilge pump runs every 20 minutes or so for 2 or 3 days, then gradually slows way down. Now, in deep water storage after not running for 5 months, the bilge pump only cycles every 60 to 90 minutes. I have no idea when the hull was refastened, if ever. Any chance this could be an easy fix? Can one just refasten one or two trouble spots? Also, is this likely a piece of hardware (thru hull) or a bigger deal? Any danger (beside sinking if my pump fails) for running it this way for one more season? Have a good local boat shop but don't want and am not in a position to underwrite an entire hull refasten this season, esp. with this being the only leak. Hull is basically completely dry everywhere else. All stuffing boxes dry. Thanks for any and all advice!
PS: what is "normal" frequency for pump to cycle on this size boat?

joanroy
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Re: Hull leak

Post by joanroy » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:20 am

How long have you owned the boat? Did you just launch her after being on the hard for a while? It not unusual for a 60 year old wooden boat to have a lot of problems, including leaks, unless it's just come off a full restoration. You really can't tell much about condition of a bottom in the water. I'd suggest getting her hauled and do a full survey inspection. The leak could be minor, could be major, but there's no way to tell until it's looked at from underneath to determine condition of planking and fasteners.

jfrprops
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Re: Hull leak

Post by jfrprops » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:41 am

there are numerous good postings on the subject here on the site.

My opinion: boat that size and age is always going to leak...somewhere....as stated that leak could be major or minor, more investigation required. I would go to where you see that water coming in ...on the inside of the hull....and pack the area gently with either caulking cotton...or my personal fave: string from a cotton mop. You will be startled at how that impacts the flow.
boatlife life caulk will set up underwater and so you can squirt some of that in there and try to put a temp. batten around it...just some attempt to kept the goop from running out until it sets up some.

Pump cycles are a freak-out subject among cruiser owners....especially rookies. The boat is going to pump. I have a cycle counter on my 33 foot seastrake.....good day is one pump, average is 3-5......if wind blows or wakes come.....more cycles.
Have a backup pump set above the main. Make that an AC pump hooked to shore power....not fool proof but close.

Assess the situation, make some attempts as above. .....and go boating.

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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RRGadow
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Re: Hull leak

Post by RRGadow » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:22 pm

What John said.

We have owned our 1940 33' for 5 years...use it ALOT.....At one point the pump would go off every 20 minutes for about 8 seconds at its worst....then got it fixed.....then started again. I had some work done this winter, she is now going off about once every 3-4 hours. I feel, if a cruiser doesn't leak...its probably not being used very often. All thoroughbreds sweat a little :D Just make sure you have a back up pump.

...and from the words of Jfrprops...go boating!
www.Gadowguitars.com

Varnish addiction.

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evansjw44
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Re: Hull leak

Post by evansjw44 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:39 am

I've had my 35' Corinthian Sea Skiff for 26 years. After the spring soak, it doesn't leak. I had a shaft log wear out and it leaked but even then I ran the pump only once a day. The thiocol CC put sea skiffs together with is tenacious stuff. I don't leave the pump on automatic unless I'm going away for a few day.

Well, the sea skiff bottom is a lot different than a typical CC cruiser.

Before I retired, I used to con the yard into hanging my boat in the hoist overnight on friday to "soak". That way I didn't have to take a vacation day to launch it. The got a new yard foreman who knew sea skiffs and I got caught. But the yard owner was an old friend and he told the foreman to do as I asked.
Jim Evans

keith colonna
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Re: Hull leak

Post by keith colonna » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:59 pm

transon stb view being varnished.jpg
stb side screw jack at site of leak
I just hauled my 42' 1955 CC Corvette for the 3rd time in a year. Previously I had the sides refastened from the chine to waterline. Then I found a leak under the bottom wedge/trim tab...filled it...leaking completely stopped. But Hagerty insisted I do a complete bottom job. So, I spent $19,000 to have the bottom stripped, new fasteners installed between the originals, 2 coats of 40% copper red lead primer and 5 gals of Interlux CSC Micron ablative bottom paint. The bottom looked like a new boat! Initially there was a noticeable leak streaming above the interior chine 18" fore of the STB transom block which never before appeared. It is still wet there and the boat is bilging 5 gals. every 24 hours. The shafts stuffing boxes, the rudders stuffing boxes... neither is leaking. The marina has offered to haul again and investigate. I can wait another week or so...what does the group think? My theory is that this new CSC bottom paint is very stiff and not sloughing off into the plank crevices they way the cheaper paints did.

joanroy
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Re: Hull leak

Post by joanroy » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:11 am

I'd let her soak longer and see if the leak slows down. Probably dried out quite a bit during the bottom work.

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RRGadow
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Re: Hull leak

Post by RRGadow » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:18 am

5 gals every 24 hrs is really not much at all! Let it soak up and get out on the river! You will never stop all the small leaks on a batten built cruiser your size.
www.Gadowguitars.com

Varnish addiction.

jfrprops
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Re: Hull leak

Post by jfrprops » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:58 pm

Well Keith, that is a no problem leak amount as others have mentioned.....having visited you and the boat while she was out....I am pleased that it looks and act so fine.....but the BILL.....more than we discussed by a lot.....?

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

keith colonna
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Re: Hull leak

Post by keith colonna » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:35 pm

Hello Group,
Thanks for the encouraging words that the leaks are normal and to just go boating,...but after a $19K refit, I expected a much tighter, non leaking hull. In my 15 years of ownership, I have had many years of leak fee, dry hull...but also one "high water" incidence which still gives me nightmares.
Last winter I spent about $6,000 to have the sides and transom refastened from the chine to the waterline by a trusted mobile carpenter. So, add that to my total "bottom job" and yeah...I was a bit taken back at the money invested and still a very, very wet bilge. At this current rate...the leak would soon run down my battery and sink the boat (again).
The very good news is that I am sitting under cover in the boathouse at the yard, at no charge, with 24-7 nightwatch. I have taken two sea trials to flex the hull and check the stuffing boxes. There is the normal drip at the shaft log stuffing box which cools that underway...not enough to account for the large amount of water in the bilge. I intend to stay here until the boat completely soaks up and my bilge is dry to my expectations. Although I am not paying storage here, I am still paying at my regular boathouse.
I am measuring volume rather than frequency on my bilge pumps. I have a 110 volt Rule 1800 sump pump with a hose out to the dock and a 5 gal bucket to recover the discharge. I return each evening and find the bucket overflowing...so it's bilging at least 5 gals per day....unacceptable to me. If this were a leaking toilet in my house I'd incur $100 per month waste!

joanroy
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Re: Hull leak

Post by joanroy » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:21 am

Keith, I understand your frustration, I'm a bit of a bottom leak freak myself. After being on the hard for six months every year, my planks open up. I probably spend an average of 40 hours a year just working on bottom maintenance. Pressure wash after haul, scrape and sand, replace zincs, check fasteners, scrape out seams, pay seams with Petit underwater seam compound where needed, clean and check running gear, paint bottom, done? I go over it with a fine tooth comb, and it still leaks. When I launch in the Spring I have little rivers running down my bilge. After two hours it slows down considerably. After two weeks it's down to two gallons a week, and that's where she stays. I'm ok with that. I did have a leak similar to yours a few years back. It was along the bottom of the chine. Thats a tough area by design to get to swell tight. I suspect when built CC brought the canvas membrane up around the chine and that took care of it. Canvas is all shot from years of flex and ware. I cleaned out the seam and filled with a bead of 4200 and that stopped it. I know the small leak I still have is up along the forward chine somewhere. Some year I'll 4200 that area too. It seems to be working out ok. No problems with plank cupping or fastener stress. I don't use 4200 anywhere on the bottom except along the chine. Not soft enough to push out during swell up.

The great news for you is with all the refastening you've had done you won't have to worry about popping a plank and ending up in Davie Jones locker. Keep the bilge pump working and enjoy the boat. Its worth the investment.

jfrprops
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Re: Hull leak

Post by jfrprops » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:53 am

Keith, and others:

For the "others" out there....Keith and I are friends and I have visited the boat on the hard during this recent refit.

That much of a leak is only a problem to and for Keith....he is a stickler for a dusty bilge....my Cavalier Seastrake takes on much more water than that and has for 20 years.

Not worried.....nature of the beast....and remember I am talking about a plywood bottomed boat not a plank boat like his and others have...thus I have way fewer seams and etc...but still she leaks....wooden boat..will leak.

to put in quantitative perspective: I only use, rebuild, save, and treasure LOVETT pumps...backed up by a Rule AC powered pump set two inches above the Lovett DC pump. I have a cycle counter....and Keith is correct to not give much thought to those....often it is just " too much information " and confusing. But, using his bucket test with the 5 gal bucket....my boat would fill that buck about 6 times in 24 hours.....and I don't consider that a problem....has been better has been worse.

The Lovett is only pumping for about a 30 second cycle right now.....so that is actually, on the bucket test....about 5 gals or less per cycle ......given the "head"...(height of the discharge above the pump).

If Keith's boat ever had a dusty bilge I would suggest that it was because she sat for a long period in the slip at that time in her life. Swell, undisturbed by sea use, and inflow of scum and dirt from the slip water, would account for such a dusty period.

Keith did a fine thing when he saved this classic....and he mothers this boat beyond praise....but in my opinion he is worried about not just "nothing"....but a "something" that is unattainable.

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

keith colonna
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Re: Hull leak

Post by keith colonna » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:25 pm

It is important to note that my friend John Rothert is a much better swimmer than am I. :wink:

jfrprops
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Re: Hull leak

Post by jfrprops » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:35 am

It is more important to note that when you run your big mouth, as I did, about how leaks don't matter all that much...next thing you know you have a bigger one. My bad/dumb......

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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evansjw44
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Re: Hull leak

Post by evansjw44 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:03 am

My sea skiff doesn't leak much. But I used the ruse of needing to "swell up" for years to get the yard to hang my boat overnight so I didn't have to take a day off for launch. I've retired but the yard management has changed and they are willing to accommodate me, mostly because I'm often the last boat out of the storage area and they want me gone. I take about 10 gallons of water in the spring before it settles down and that is from the forefoot and along the keel. I'm not going to mess with that if I don't have to.

I get rain water and wash down water down the decks and into the bilge as CC put the engine room vents right on the deck. I check for bilge water every so often and run the pump. Trouble is, I turn it on then forget it and come back to find I have a dead battery. When I see unusual bilge water I go searching. The last search turned up a hose from my air conditioner cooling pump spitting water. Funny how it took me a while to connect running the air with extra bilge water.
Jim Evans

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