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Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Framing, planking and fairing. Repair, or reconstruction. If it's hull related, you'll find it here.

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jfrprops
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by jfrprops » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:05 am

I agree with Joanroy......great stuff...wish more folks would post in such detail.....

John in Va.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:33 pm

Thanks guys. The port chine bottom rabbet has been machined and sanded to its final dimension which enabled me to start to dry fit the inner bottom plywood sheets. I will trim the excess off the bottom of the chine cap when the outer planks are dry fit as well. I still have to do the same to the stbd chine, but I am somewhat higher on the learning curve so it will go faster. The next miracle was to find an easier way to lift the 4'x8' 9mm 1088 maranti plywood into place in order to fasten it to the frames. I needed to develop a method that will enable me to do this by myself without too much messing about (with the attendant cussing) when I do the final installation with adhesive and fasteners in the spring. I did a dry run today and it worked surprisingly well. Although on my back on the crawler, I did not have to wrestle with the full sheet at all, and positioning was straightforward. It looks the same as last year when I buttoned it up for the winter, but now all the frames are repaired/replaced and the chines are fully built.

The pics should be viewed from bottom to top.....
Attachments
M2600004.JPG
Vertical side of the chine rabbet. It is still deeper than the 1" bottom, but I will machine that away in the spring when the outer planks are on. To the right of the picture you can make out where the new chine is scarfed into the original. Still some machining to do as the new piece is still proud in depth and needs to be shaped on the outboard side.
M2600008.JPG
Final sanding with a random orbital sander. It works fast and produces an even surface.
M2600006.JPG
Handy little electric planer. I am just holding it there to illustrate because I am taking a picture. The objective was to finish the vertical rabbet surface to the point where final sanding makes the glue line invisible.
M2600012.JPG
Ta-dah
M2600011.JPG
After the sheet is propped into place I moved it into its final position and added a spacer under the middle of the support arm to push the ply up into the curve of the frame. Then I drove in a few screws and was done.
M2600010.JPG
I clamped hinged 2x4s to the skeg and slid the sheet of plywood onto the part that extends to the outside under the chine. Then I lifted the 2x4s one at a time and stuck another length of 2x4 underneath to prop things up. Like installing drywall on a ceiling.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:08 pm

I have finished machining the inside of both new chines and the inner bottom is dry fit and in place for the winter. I seriously underestimated how long the job would take. I will drop it and do the permanent installation in the spring when it is warm enough to use 5200. I think I have reached the point where lifting the full sheets of plywood and bending them into the frame is pretty straightforward. I use the rig I posted before, but once the sheet is up I lower one of the props and put a couple of pieces of 2x4 in the centre and lift it again, using it like a lever. The pictures below will show how it works. As the sheet takes the curve of the frame it 'shortens' its width and slips nicely over the lip of the chine and into place. Anyway, I will finish fairing the bow frames and fit 6" wide strips of plywood in to take the compound curve at the bow. After that I will start making and dry fitting the exterior planks.

That is it for now.
Attachments
M2620003.JPG
port looking aft.
M2620005.JPG
Stbd looking aft. I have started fairing the forward frames with a random orbital sander. It is quick and accurate as I constantly check the alignment as I go.
M2620001.JPG
Stbd looking aft. This sheet has been screwed into place. The prop is very easy to use and you can see the two 2x4 blocks in the middle which, when the prop is forced up by the outer 'leg', snugs the sheet right up against the frame.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:19 pm

Getting close to finishing the dry fitting of the inner bottom at the bow. I need to re-do a couple of small pieces at the most fwd part of the port bow to get a more precise fit, but that is just being fussy. The fit for the rest is good, and the intermediate frames will pull any minor uneven seams into line. I will finish the stbd bow tomorrow, including fairing the rabbet on the new knee and piece of stem that I scarfed in in the spring. The port fairing went quickly. After that I intend to button her up and report for jury duty. I probably won't post again until spring although I will be making up the exterior planks and dry fitting them as they become available.
Attachments
M2630001.JPG
Quick peek at the inside of the port bow area showing some of the plywood strips dry fit. That is sanding dust on the frames and the plywood strips.
M2630003.JPG
Port looking aft. Final dry fit with all the frames faired and the chine/knee/stem rabbets done. The piece with the scarf in it and the last one fwd of it will be replaced. You can see where I have scribbled +3/8 on it to indicate it is a bit short.
M2630004.JPG
Stbd bow looking aft. Just starting to install the plywood stips to the bow. The rest will only take a couple of hours.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by joanroy » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:32 am

How will you fasten your inner ply? I'm formulating a new bottom plan for a Red and White and I am considering using Raptor plastic fasteners with 5200 on the frame faces to hold the inner ply, epoxy lamination between the plys, then bronze screws through all the layers as final fastening. The cool thing about the plastic fasteners is they can be sanded smooth and the bronze fasteners wlll go right through if you hit one. I'm planning a three layer ply epoxy laminated cold molded type bottom with a final layer of epoxy coated dynel. What do you think?

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:57 pm

JR, a cold molded bottom is beyond my experience so I cannot comment on that. With regard to my plan to attach the inner ply bottom, I intend to use 5200 on all the contact surfaces (chines, frames, keel, keelsons, transom...etc.). When dry fitting it became apparent that even with the rather gentle curves in the bottom, the ply is still under some tension when attached. It is not enough to strip out even a single 1 5/8 drywall screw, but it is there. Consequently, once the adhesive is applied I will lift the plywood sheets into place and use my lifting rig (previous posts) to snug it up to the frames in the middle. This will cause the sheet to bend and naturally apply pressure to the keel and chine rabbets. I will then use sb screws to fasten it into place all around, starting in the middle and working out. I checked out the Raptor staples and brads you mentioned and they look very interesting. I wonder though, if they would serve to draw the ply up snug to the frame as will a screw. If memory serves, a Red and White has quite pronounced curves in the bottom so your plan may be better for your application. Today I worked on the final plywood strips on the stbd bow. I only have about 18" to go before it is all closed in.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by joanroy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:28 am

Rob, how was your original inner bottom planking fastened. Was it just tacked somewhat temporarily and then held fast with the screws through the outer planks, or was the inner fully screwed and then the outer also fully screwed over? Also, did your original bottom have the odd lookin small pan head screw with the washer type head fastened from the inside out between the frame sections? What was the purpose of the inner screws. Just trying to get a sense of how the original double planked bottom on my cruiser is held in place. Thanks.

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:43 am

JR. I just took the following pics of an inner bottom plank that I intend to turn into dowels. I think they will illustrate answers to your questions. One thing to keep in mind, the hull was upside down when assembled so the workers could use their knees and body weight to press the inner planks snug to the frames when they first nailed them down. They used galvanized steel nails. After that they came along with the outer planks and fastened them straight to the frames. I don't know if they also did the intermediate frames at the same time or flipped the boat over for that.
Attachments
M2650006.JPG
Nail head. Outside of inner plank.
M2650004.JPG
These are the galvanized steel nails used to tack the inner planks to the frames before the outer planks were screwed into place over the canvas, which itself was held in place with brass carpet tacks. Usually there were two nails for each point of contact of the inner plank with the frame.
M2650003.JPG
These are the pan head screws you asked about. You can see that they were placed at the edge of the inner plank on both sides. This was the case 100% of the time. I figure they served to keep the inner snug to the outer and to prevent warping. The latter is a guess as I did not encounter any warping at all (so maybe it worked?). You are looking at the inside of the inner plank.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by joanroy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:02 pm

Thanks for the photos. I'm kinda thinking, during original construction with the boats upside down, the diagonal planks were tacked with the finish nails, then the outer planking installed and fully screwed through to the frames, chine, etc. At this point the boats were probably flipped upright and the washer head inner screws installed to pull the thin inner planks tight to the outer. This is why I'm thinking about fastening the inner with the plastic nails. CC probably spaced the finish nails, inner screws, and the outer screws accordingly so they wouldn't hit each other. With the plastic it wouldn't matter because the bronze would go right through the plastic nail.

I know you situation is different and much more difficult because your installing from underneath, but I'm wondering if it would be helpful to you when you install the outer planking to use the washer type screws inside as you go along to help pull the bottoms tight together and eliminate any voids in between the layers? Just a thought.

I'm looking into purchasing a Raptor gun and nails to experiment with this fastening technique and see how well they hold. Plastic would be totally corrosion proof. I let you know how it works out.

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:15 pm

Are you going to flip your R+W? It is 25' (I think) which is pretty big. I would really like to see some pics of that! I see the attraction of the plastic nails and firing them in with a brad gun. I suppose it will depend upon the frames and the material you use to repair or replace them with. White oak will turn bullets and African Mahogany will do the same. DRM would be penetrated easily. It would be fast and as you say, eliminates the issue of hitting metal with a subsequent fastener. I did encounter some nails that had been hit with the pilot drill, but not many. Being production boats, I think the workers at CC had a pretty good idea where to drive the nails and figured they would miss the vast majority with the 3" brass screws that fastened the outer planks. I also expect they worked pretty fast. Sometimes they missed the frames altogether and drove a dowel into the hole to fix it. I am not sure that I will re-use the inner screws except maybe at the bow where the plywood is installed in narrow strips to take the compound curve. There will be intermediate frames between the main frames, consequently the spacing will be every 6". Look again at the photo of the inside of the inner plank above and you can see where there was a main frame on the left (bigger screw holes) and an intermediate on the right (smaller screw holes). Check out how close they came with the screw to the nail at the bottom of the picture! The pan head screws are between the two. I am inclined to minimize how many holes I drill in the inner bottom and I believe the frames will ensure a solid bedding between the inner and outer bottoms. One thing is certain, I have quite a pile of those little screws and they seem in very nice condition.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by joanroy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:22 pm

After following along with your work, I actually had a debate in my head exploring the possibility of restoring the Red and White in the upright position. Finally came to my senses and decided if it's flippable, flip it. Not easy, but doable. Totally impractical to even consider such an event with our cruisers. If my 36 is ever upside down, it won't be intentional.

Anyway, the Red and White sits in my back yard shrink wrapped begging for restoration. The engine is at the shop restored and ready to go. Our current shop space is too small and serves other purposes, so I'm in the permitting approval process to build a new 30X50 shop big enough to flip and restore the Red and White and eventually Winter store my 36 DSEB. I'll definitely photo document the work and share it here on the Buzz. In the mean time I'm enjoying watching your process. Its not every day you get to see a cruiser bottom replacement. It's been interesting and having spent a bit of time on my back under boats, I feel your pain. Happy Boating!

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:42 pm

The bow inner bottom is completed and dry fit. The frames and keel/stem rabbets are faired as is everything else. Come spring it will be drop, seal, goop, re-install. Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, where-ever you are......
Attachments
S1130006.JPG
The way it was.....ouch!
M2660006.JPG
Finally closed up in time for winter.
M2660001.JPG
Another view looking aft
M2660002.JPG
Fairing went much quicker than I expected.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:13 pm

Found a picture from around 2006, heading down the Cataraqui River to Kingston.
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M2670003.JPG
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by joanroy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:01 am

That's a pretty picture from Eludes past, and thanks to your efforts, I'm sure we'll be seeing more of her in the future. Carry On!

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:16 am

I'm preparing the outer planks for the bottom. Pictures like this one remind me of why I am enjoying the reconstruction of Elude.
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IMG_0027.jpg
Circa 2001. In the Thousand Islands.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:48 pm

Winter is dragging on a bit although it has been a soft one by any measure. I have fabricated quite a few blanks for bottom planks into lengths of up to 15' by scarfing. I have decided that the best approach for me in fitting the new planks will be to start at the keel (of course) and run the entire length with the new planks. I will then fit the original planks next to them to ensure the fit before using them as templates. So, I have a nice pile of finished garbord planks and blanks from which to cut the subsequent planks. I have also been down to the boat to start a plan for replacing and/or repairing the side planks that have some deterioration at the butt joints or edges at the battens. The port side is going to require much more work than stbd, but even so the work will be very straightforward compared to the bottom. I will use African to re-plank the sides, but my estimate is that only about 10% of the total hull above the chines requires attention. Attached are a few pics of typical areas that I can fix by removing the original plank, cutting back to clean wood, and laminating in a new piece with epoxy. I will remove the planks to ensure that there is no rot hiding where I can't find it from surface probing. In a few cases I will install an entirely new plank because in the distant past shorter pieces (some less than 4') where used at the stern to repair rotted bits. I can buy lengths up to about 14', so that helps. I still have many hours of work ahead to install the bottom, but it feels nice to finally start planning for what happens when the bottom is done. I will add that this is where I am grateful that cruisers have painted hulls. Achieving a perfect flush fit like on a varnished runabout hull would be impossible for me to do.
Attachments
M2710011.JPG
Port under a porthole. The rot is not severe at all from this vantage point. You can see where I have shaved some of the rotten wood away on the top of the lower plank, and quickly got to clean wood. You can also see where I used bondo to do a quick repair about 20 years ago. It is still solidly bonded to the plank but this time I will scarf in new material when the planks are off. I will repair the batten at the same time if need be. The stern area has more extensive issues, but I have already decided to use new planks there. This photo is about 14' aft of the bow. That odd plank you see at the bottom is a piece of cheap pine installed for the winter to keep critters out of the boat.
M2710005.JPG
This is a picture of the butt block and battens behind the planks in the other picture. From inside the butt block, battens and the planks seem perfect and probing with an awl did not reveal any rot. However, the planks tell a different story which is why I will remove the block and the planks. Seam rot like this is always located under portholes or other openings that allowed rain water to get through. You can see the moisture stains quite clearly.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by joanroy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:53 am

Spring is just around the corner and it sound like 2017 will be a big year for Elude! Once the bottom is done, the side planking repairs will seem easy and you'll actually be able to work in an upright position. Hooray! Good Luck and Carry On!

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:54 pm

The weather is incredible for February so I decided to do some more prep work for the side planking repairs that I have to do after the bottom is finished. There is nothing more I can do to the bottom until consistently warmer weather arrives in April. I wanted to inspect the frames behind the second plank up from the port chine, so today I removed that plank from amidships aft. This is an original piece, although the last four feet to the stern were replaced over 30 years ago. I was very pleased with the outstanding condition of the frames and battens and will have virtually no structural work to do. Having two planks off will make installing the bottom intermediate frames much easier. Here are some pics. The last two are sideways....sorry.
Attachments
M2730015.JPG
Port looking forward with plank removed.
M2730001.JPG
Removing the plank. That is 5200 that I used to replace the original hard seam filler. I did that in 1992 or so. Note the inner edge of the plank. It is as hard and crisp as the day it was installed. There are a few soft places in the plank near a butt block joint and along another part of the edge for about 5 inches to a depth of 1/2 an inch from the top edge.
M2730009.JPG
Another frame.
M2730013.JPG
All the frames are in this condition, which to me is extraordinary. Note as well the condition of the upper batten. It has not seen the light of day in over 79 years
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:00 pm

As the excellent weather continues, I have decided to do as much repair as I can above the port chine near the stern. Rain water trickling down through the deck opening for the original boarding ladder bracket led to issues immediately beneath as you will see again in this series of pics. The transom is always a weak spot for plank rot and I have uncovered epoxy filler repairs that were done prior to us acquiring Elude in 1989. Note in the pics the hairline cracks in the paint that betray these non-wood repairs. What is neat though, is that the epoxy repairs did not seem to promote additional rot in the planks or the frames. The transom cheek is perfect. I think the rot in the batten preceded the repairs. Anyway, I thought that I would pull the plank and repair it, but after inspection I decided to replace it entirely. It is 8' long and the first 4' are pristine. Only under the boarding ladder bracket is it rotten, and at the transom of course. I will fit the new plank tomorrow and then remove the next one down. You will see where the splash rail was cut for old repairs. I removed the splash rail and was delighted to find the planks at the seam forward of the cut in the picture are in fine condition except for the first 3 inches or so. The splash rail has been on the boat for 79 years and when I backed out the screws at the forward end, the piece sprung to its original shape straight as a die. The first two pics should follow picture 3, but I messed it up.
Attachments
M2740013.JPG
Frame forward of the cheek... sweet. The upper batten is also nice.
M2740012.JPG
Cheek exposed. It is clear and true despite being a bit dirty. The lower batten will be replaced due to rot 3' forward of this, but it is also mostly in great shape. The pointy wooden bit attached to the cheek is an original inner plank now serving to keep racoons from denning up over the winter..
M2740011.JPG
All fasteners removed with one broken. Total time to remove the plank was about 2 1/2 hours. I was being careful as I thought that I would repair and replace it.
M2740001.JPG
You can see the vertical hairline crack in the paint that marks the wood/filler boundary. I dug out the chunk of filler that occupied the gap at the bottom of the plank.
M2740002.JPG
I marked the naughty bit but if you look closely you should be able to see a horizontal hairline crack in the paint that marks the wood/filler boundary. At least 30 years old!
M2740004.JPG
Same spot as the previous picture but with some paint removed. Bottom of the plank below ladder bracket. This epoxy and bondo repair is about 18 inches long and about 1.5 inches up from the edge.
M2740003.JPG
Epoxy filler repairs at transom. About 1/8 inch pf plank was backing this from an original thickness of 7/8inch
M2740014.JPG
The plank removed, the batten is rotted below the ladder bracket hole. The bottom corner of the next plank down is rotted. After pulling off the splash rail I found the rot only extends about 3 more inches forward.
M2740015.JPG
This is the forward notch to accommodate the boarding ladder. Inboard on the deck was a hole that allowed rain water to drain onto the inside of the planks.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:33 pm

I have removed the lower plank that was under the splash rail. The splash rail covered the seam between it and the plank above. There was only dried bedding under the splash rail and no sign of any filler between the planks themselves. Once I put some heat on the old bedding compound it came off easily with a pull scraper. It was not an adhesive. The edges of both planks are perfect until near the stern under the boarding ladder location. The following pictures are of the new plank I installed yesterday (first try so a bit of sizing is still necessary), the seam that was under the splash rail, the problem area under the fool boarding ladder location, and the framing revealed once the next plank was removed. Tomorrow I will fabricate and dry fit the new batten pieces for the last four feet where all the problems were. It will then be easy to properly size the new planks and dry fit them too. The plank I removed today is in really good shape so I will try to scarf five feet onto the end to create a single plank about 13 feet long. That way there will be only one butt block joint near the stern (on the plank above) There is one vertical frame located just behind the cut ends of the planks in the pics that needs some repair. I will have to wait for the weather to warm up before I can scarf in new material with epoxy glue. Other than that one frame (which is under the accursed boarding ladder location) all the others are in crazy good condition as your will see in the pics. This is going way better and faster than I thought so I hope to have all the side planks dry fit over the next two weeks. I can't begin to explain how pleasant it is to work sitting up or standing. If I get silly I may even be able to dry fit the transom planks.... be still my heart.

View from the bottom up... sorry.
Attachments
M2760003.JPG
This is the plank above the one I just removed. Only the last 6 inches has rot. The plank was terminated here for a repair over 30 years ago. The last four feet was pieced in with a butt block joint. I have removed all that stuff as well as the battens which were completely rotted from this point to the stern. I will fabricate new battens tomorrow and dry fit them so that I can do a proper job sizing the new planks.
M2760004.JPG
This is right near the end of the plank. You can see where the naughty bit ends. This is the total extent of the rot in this plank. I will simply cut it off and butt block a new length of plank to the stern, about 4 feet.
M2760013.JPG
Nice batten!
M2760017.JPG
With the plank removed you can see the excellent condition of the frames and butt block. The bottom edge of the plank just above is perfect until the very aft portion under the bloody boarding ladder location. The plank below is just tacked in place to keep the critters out. A previous post showed the excellent condition of the frames behind it as well.
M2750014.JPG
Port looking aft. Discolouration is where the splash rail was. It was never painted and yet the wood is in fine condition. I removed the bottom plank as the upper one is perfect except for the last six inches near the stern.
M2750013.JPG
New meets old!
M2750006.JPG
Port looking aft. First of the new planking test fit.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:32 pm

Here are some pics of what I did today. I had to cut out the last 6 inches of the plank immediately under the new plank I put in on Sunday. Check the above post and you will see what I mean. The last 6 inches were decayed, but the rest of the plank to forward is perfect so I will not touch that portion at all. The first five feet of the original plank that I replaced on Sunday are really nice but the remainder was too far gone to repair. Consequently I decided to use the first five feet to do the repair today. Everything is dry fit for now. I hope this is interesting for folks.
Attachments
M2770005.JPG
This picture is out of order and should be third. It shows the piece cut out of the end of the plank and the excellent condition of the wood at the cut.
M2770002.JPG
The offending end that must be cut back 6 inches or so to reach clean wood for the new butt block.
M2770001.JPG
Using my Rockwell 3 3/8" circular saw. The cut is already made and I am just holding it there to illustrate. A circular saw makes a nice straight and very clean cut. I should mention that I removed two pieces of sacrificial wood that I attached to the battens above and below the cut. This provides a smooth transition in and out of the piece to be cut.
M2770003.JPG
I set the saw depth about 1/64th shy of the depth of the plank to ensure I did not cut the battens. I used the razor knife to easily slice through the remainder.
M2770012.JPG
Planks lined up for butt block joint. I will have to trim about 3/16" off the bottom of the plank on the right. That will probably leave the original screw holes or cut into them a bit. I will need to drill new ones but the splash rail goes over this edge so it is not a problem if it is a little messy.
M2770014.JPG
cutting the scarf
M2770020.JPG
inboard view of the scarf in the original batten. The batten is in excellent condition form this point forward. The first frame is under the stupid boarding ladder bracket and will be repaired once it is warm enough to use epoxy glue. I will do all the planking and just dry fit it for until spring.
M2770026.JPG
New batten scarfed into the original. It is too cold to glue. Today I cut the notch for the batten into the new frame which is the second one.
M2770027.JPG
Still some trimming to do on the bottom edge but this is how I used some original planking. I lined up and cut the forward plank for the butt joint so that the fastener holes in the 'new' piece line up with the frames.
Last edited by robertpaul on Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

jfrprops
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by jfrprops » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:41 pm

keep at it......stay strong! You could have glued any day in Feb. here in Va.....

nice work, enjoy following your steady progress...

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

joanroy
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by joanroy » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:53 am

Agree! Love following along and you documentation is important. Thanks!

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tuobanur
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by tuobanur » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:54 am

Love watching this stuff, thanks for sharing and great work BTW.
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:57 pm

Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated as always. I was lazy today and did not go to the boat. Still, I managed to plane down the original plank I am reusing. From the pics you can see how nice the pre-war material still is.
Attachments
M2780005.JPG
Ready to install.
M2780002.JPG
I took most off with the big bench plane and finished with the edge plane. When the wood shaves so nice I have to be careful I don't just keep planing away past my marks.
M2770027.JPG
Port looking aft. The 'new' original piece that I am using to repair the aft planking near the transom. Note again that it is proud at the bottom. I decided to plane it with my bench plane, finishing with my handy edge plane which gives a perfect 90degree cut.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:28 pm

I have been pressing on with repairing/replacing the port planking and battens at the port stern. I will be able to re-use some of the original planking however not always as expected. The following pics will show what I have done and where my plan to re-use was over-ridden by how butt joints were lining up. My planer has been working hard because the 4/4 African I buy is always around 5/4. So I am making lots of chips. The material is nice but my planer knives are dulling fast.

Pics: view from last to first.....again
Attachments
M2830002.JPG
Port looking aft. The plank is just over 11 feet in length.
M2830001.JPG
So I decided it would be better to install a new plank that is the same length as was done at the factory.
M2810012.JPG
Here is how the butt joints line up between the two planks. Recall the right piece of the upper plank is also 're-cycled' original stock that is in fine condition. I dithered about this for a couple of days as the proximity of the butt blocks to each other was troubling me. The boat is strong like bull, so I was not so much worried about structural issues as I was about the unsightly appearance. It makes the job look like the back end was hacked up (as it was) and fixed with too short pieces (as it was). You can see a bit of the new material at the bottom of the lower plank. The splash rail straddles the seam so the fit is ok.
M2810010.JPG
Here is the repaired original plank re-installed. I cut out the bottom inch of the last four feet where the plank had rotted and pieced in new material. It worked out fine but.....
M2810009.JPG
I wanted to repair the bottom edge of the original plank and reinstall it, which would leave something less than four feet to the stern.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:40 pm

Before freezing my tush, I managed to fabricate and dry fit a new plank that is second up from the port chine. I do have two vertical frames to attend to when the weather warms up enough (this last blast of winter is annoying). The one in the recent posts above, and one more that is a few feet forward of that. The latter is split where the first plank will be and dodgy for the second plank up. The plank I put in today went in nicely and I have yet to clean it up a bit with the edge plane. I got cold. You will see in the picture the original plank immediately above it that I will pull out tomorrow and repair. There is minimal deterioration in it and I think it will fix up nicely. Currently the bottom edge is a bit ragged in one area which shows up in the pics. The bondo repair you can see lasted 20+ years but it is time to splice in real wood-real good. I clamped a piece of original planking that is in sweet condition to finish up to the stern. I can't line up the frames with the existing fastener hole so I will have to plug them, which is easy. But I wonder if it is better to install new african mahogany instead? The lower edge will be below the waterline, so I am seeking opinions. I would love to use original planking.
Attachments
M2850001.JPG
The plank above the new one is coming out tomorrow for repair and will be reinstalled. The ragged edge wil be fixed. Near the leading end of the new plank and just below you will see one of three small pieces of scrap that I clamp to the frame immediately below the plank being installed. I can lay the new plank on them and then just tip it into place. Makes working alone with a long plank quite easy.
M2850004.JPG
Port looking forward. I still have a minor amount of clean up with the edge plane in a few spots, but otherwise it looks ok to me. The first frame (closest to the camera) is the one I will repair.
M2850006.JPG
Original planking from elsewhere clamped into position at the port stern. I would really like to do this but lots of holes that need plugging.... below waterline.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

joanroy
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by joanroy » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:48 pm

Nice Rob! I can't make a below the water line call on whether or not to use the old plank or a new plank. From my experiences as a restoration contractor, all I can say is the majority of the time old growth old wood is much nicer stuff than pretty much any wood you buy today. It's all about density and straightness of grain. Looking Good!

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:45 pm

Thanks JR. If you look at the last pic above, I put that original plank through my planer to take about 1mm of the top to get rid of some paint and to test the wood. You would think I was planing iron. It is unbelievably dense compared to DRM and even African. I can't for the life of me throw away ANY mahogany that I have 'harvested' from Elude. I will make plugs and dowels and re-use any way I can. But I have so much from the side and bottom planks that I feel like a hoarder on one of those tv shows. I can't just pop these or the bottom planks back in because there is enough splitting, rot, and other age related wear and tear that they are just past their time. But the parts (75%) that are nice can be re-used. I think when I am done I will make a coffee table or two.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Crui

Post by robertpaul » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:57 pm

I have been busy over the last four weeks (aside from a week in sunny Florida), and just today completed the final dry fit for all the new and repaired planking on Elude's port side. I still have a couple of frames to repair once the weather is warmer, but that won't take more than a few days when the time comes. I removed all of the planks that showed rot and assessed them for replacement or repair including one that is 16' long and runs to the stem. Except for rot along the last two feet on the top seam, it and the framing behind it are in astounding condition. I have marked where I have to make a pass or two with my edge plane with a black sharpie, so in the pictures it can make an edge look a bit ragged where in fact it is pretty even.

AFTER BOAT BUZZ FIX
I have restored the original pics. To match with the original explanation I have written the first several words from same in the caption below each pic..... savy?
Attachments
M2910006.JPG
I decided to reuse....
M2910005.JPG
A lot happening here....
M2910003.JPG
Looking forward, this and the next photo....
M2880004.JPG
The bottom edge of the long plank....
M2880001.JPG
This is the butt block....
M2710012.JPG
These planks needed to be removed in order to restore the decayed edges. Repairs are shown in the pics above.
M2880001.JPG
This is the butt block that was behind all the nasty bits in the planks in the first photo. The smear on it is seam compound applied at the factory and was scraped off easily with just a touch of heat from my heat gun. I think it is the same stuff as the Pettit seam compound. The block itself is pristine as you can see. The picture does not do it justice. My bet is that all the contact faces of frames and planks, butt blocks etc where simply coated with thinned varnish. It still has a nice shine. This block is going right back in where it came from. I will say that the batten did not fare so well. I removed about 3/8" of rot just below and to the sides of the butt joint for a total of about 8". I will clean it up when doing the final assembly and laminate a new piece in. The block is resting on the 16' plank that runs to the stem. You can see the repair to the upper edge on the right of the photo. In the photos to follow you will see how it looks after fairing (the picture where I am pointing at it).
M2880004.JPG
The bottom edge of the long plank had some surface rot from the stern end butt block forward for about 36". There was also a bit of surface rot where it was backed by a frame. I set up my router and once I cleaned to a depth of 1/4", I was into perfect wood. I laminated a strip of African in the routed groove and a small dutchman just above that where the frame fits (my finger is pointing to the small piece I glued in. With the top edge and bottom edge repaired, the plank is totally without rot.
M2910003.JPG
Looking forward, this and the next photo show where I cut out the ragged edges and pieced in new or re-cycled material. My finger is on the joint between the original plank and the repair (which is re-cycled planking). Above is African.
M2910005.JPG
A lot happening here. This is the butt joint area that I posted on Feb 13th and again just above. I removed the top right plank in the picture, cut out the rot back to fine wood and pieced in replacement material. For the top edge I used re-cycled planking, but because of the length of the ragged area of the bottom edge I used African. All repairs of this kind are dowelled as well as surface glued with epoxy. The top edge of the bottom plank (this plank runs 16' to the stem) has been repaired with recycled material as well. I was very pleased with the outcome and expect when faired and painted it will blend in quite nicely.
M2910006.JPG
I decided to re-use this piece of planking for the stern. It was from elsewhere but is in such fine condition that I thought I would give it a try. Turned out better than I expected. You will see that the bottom edge at the stern has been repaired with African. I like to use original material but sometimes the repair is to long to allow me to do that.
Last edited by robertpaul on Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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