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fuses in a rewire of a 57 sea skiff

Your old Chris-Craft electrical system can be a challenge. If it runs on "juice" pose your questions and offer your advice here.

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maxxadams
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fuses in a rewire of a 57 sea skiff

Post by maxxadams » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:46 am

Hello all,
I am onto making a new wiring harness for my sea skiff and I believe I bought the wrong thing off a recommendation. There were 3 inline fuses and was planning on putting a fuse panel in . I have a blue sea marine blade fuse block. I believe I cannot use this because it is not a inline fuse set up in that there is common bus for positive and negative and that the screws used for plus and minus do not meet like in a inline fuse set up. This panel is like your house circuit panel in that you your power supply coming in and all circuits pull power from the that source. How would this work if you have one wire were the fuse would be located? I know I am missing something am probably over thinking this, can anyone point me in the right direction in using this fuse panel? or am I right in that I have the wrong part for the job?

Any help would be appreciated.

Max

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Fuse Block

Post by evansjw44 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:38 am

Chris Craft used a fuse block and return (ground, negative) bus bar arrangement. They never installed in-line fuses. The drawing I have inserted here shows how their wiring would be done. You can probably get a copy of the original wiring diagram for your boat from the archive. But, that drawing will look a lot like this one.

There is one exception to how CC wired boats that marine surveyor are pushing. Perhaps its in the newer vesions of the wiring published by AYB. It requires the bilge pump to be connected directly to the battery, no cut off or transfer switches in between, with a fuse no more then 7 inches from the positive terminal. I had an arguement with the surveyor that went through my boat last year on that arrangement. That's another story.
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Post by 57 chris » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:26 am

You're lucky, at least you had fuses. There were no fuses in my boat before I did my re-wire.Here's a couple of pix of what I did to solve that problem...
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1957 18' SeaSkiff #SK 18675 "Knot Sure!"
1958 18' SeaSkiff #SK18722 "Wreckreation"

Past projects: 1972 19' Lancer with 307 Volvo drive-Great Blue, 1968 23' Lancer Offshore with 283 Volvo drive-Narwahl
1988 FourWinns 245 Vista - Blue Ayes.

It's good to have wood!

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Nice Job

Post by evansjw44 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:31 am

Looks like a nice job. My old Hacker had a wierd circuit breaker thing that was part of the key-switch. That was the only over current protection.

I rarely see an older cruiser that someone hasn't butchered the electrical wiring on. Some how a bunch of in-line fuses and wires all wadded up and wire nutted together just doesn't bother anybody. Not on my boat. Everything has its own fuse. I have a transfer switch for my electronics and pumps. Everything is nice an neat as it can be considering all the wiring runs under the deck around the perimiter of the engine room where you can see it but can't touch it.

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Post by maxxadams » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:49 pm

Thanks everyone, I think I am making this more complicated in my head. I will make the harness and comeback to this and try again.

Max

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Post by 57 chris » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:29 pm

Hi Max,
After re-reading the posts here I believe I missed your point.
Were you concerned about protecting the conductor coming from the battery feeding the loads? Or were you not sure how to tie your new fuse block into the system?

Craig
1957 18' SeaSkiff #SK 18675 "Knot Sure!"
1958 18' SeaSkiff #SK18722 "Wreckreation"

Past projects: 1972 19' Lancer with 307 Volvo drive-Great Blue, 1968 23' Lancer Offshore with 283 Volvo drive-Narwahl
1988 FourWinns 245 Vista - Blue Ayes.

It's good to have wood!

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maxxadams
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Post by maxxadams » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:15 pm

The later. I have been given a blade fuse set up that has both negative and positive bus. In my wiring diagram from the MM it shows the line coming off the positive side of the am meter going to 2 of the fuses these are for navigation and ign/start. The other fuse form the original comes off the negative side of the am meter and is the fuse circuit for the horn. I am trying to see how to fit in this new panel with these bus configurations on the fuse block I have. The Blue Sea Systems fuse block I have is PN 5026 - ST*Blade Fuse Block With Cover - 12 Circuit with Negative Bus. It was given to me as a gift and it is way more than is needed but oh well. So how do I add these to the fuse block and add negative side components to the fuse side like with the horn circuit? Then I have to research the bilge pump wiring somebody described early to run it off the battery. Pretty sad huh, for some reason I am getting more confused than should be I wired up many things and understand it pretty good, but this time I am not getting it.

Max
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57 chris
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Post by 57 chris » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:50 pm

OK Max,
Don't freak-out, we'll get you through this.
First off, you're going to run at least a #10 conductor from your "battery" terminal on the starter (not directly from the battery) to the positive side of the ammeter. From the same side of the ammeter you want to take two tap wires off, one will feed the horn relay(a #12)and the other will feed the bilge pump (size dependant on size of pump, probably a #14 or #16). This puts the feed for these heavy loads on the "line" side of the ammeter so you won't have your meter "spike" every time you hit the horn button or when the bilge pump kicks on. These two feeds will not be fused in the panel so you will have to install in-line fuses for these two loads.
Next, from the negative side of the ammeter you run a #10 (or same size as from the starter) to the input terminal of your fuse panel, this feeds the fuse panel with power. Don't be confused by the "negative" designation on the ammeter, this is not connected to the negative or ground side of the battery, it's designated "negative' just to differentiate between the "in" and "out" sides of the ammeter. If the wires are connected to the the opposite terminals, the ammeter will operate backwards (it will show discharge when in fact it's charging and vice versa.
Next run a ground wire the same size as the feed wire from the engine block (same location used to terminate the negative battery cable) to the negative buss bar in your fuse panel.
Now you're you're ready to run new circuits from your various loads to the fuse panel (positive wire to the fuse terminal and ground wire to negative or ground bar in the panel). You can run the ground wires from your bilge pump and horn relay to the ground bar in the panel even though the fuses for these loads aren't in the panel.
One thing that I did that won't go over well with the judges is I installed a 30 amp circuit breaker in the feed wire going from the Batt terminal on the starter to the ammeter. I hid it behind the motor mount on the inside of the starboard stringer so it's not easily seen. I just felt that I wanted all wires protected by an overcurrent device. You may want to consider this, maybe not.
This is just the "nuts and bolts" of the wiring process, if you need finer detail don't be afraid to ask.
An old timer once told me that "the only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked"

Craig
1957 18' SeaSkiff #SK 18675 "Knot Sure!"
1958 18' SeaSkiff #SK18722 "Wreckreation"

Past projects: 1972 19' Lancer with 307 Volvo drive-Great Blue, 1968 23' Lancer Offshore with 283 Volvo drive-Narwahl
1988 FourWinns 245 Vista - Blue Ayes.

It's good to have wood!

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maxxadams
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Post by maxxadams » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:45 am

Thanks this helps. I will probably comeback with some more detailed questions.

Max

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electrical system - skiff

Post by Dick Baner » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:32 am

Hello, I cannot tell what size skiff you have from the picture so not sure if this will help out. I have a complete original wiring harness from a 21 ft sportsman, vintage 63 to 64. It still has the fuse block with 5 fuses, battery cables, etc. If you want it you can have it for free if you pay the shipping. I think the boat serial was SUA21 0080. Dick Baner, Eureka, IL 61530 309-467-3208
1967 33' Chris Craft SeaStrake
"Wave Toucher III,
1965 18' Carver Captain I/O "Wave Toucher II
1974 12' Alcort Minifish,
1973 15' Chrysler Mutineer "Wind Toucher"

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Re: fuses in a rewire of a 57 sea skiff

Post by 54 Skiff » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:05 am

Hello all, I'm new here and new to working things like DC electrical systems. I know this is an old post but thought my question was best suited here. I have a 54 18' sea skiff and can't figure out where I can put either fuses or circuit breakers . My wiring is all original and needs work to the point the the solinod is only getting 3 volts. Most of the problem is the ignition key, which I'm replacing. I'm also replacing the starter button. My questions:

I would like to start by replacing the ignition wires. Currently all wires are in the original wiring harness. Can I go directly from the ignition key to the starter? Right now all the wires seem to go back into the wiring harness.

Can I then go directly from the starter button to the Solinoid?

The ignition has three wires hooked to it. One black wire which I'm assuming is positive. One green which I believe goes to the starter button and one blue to the coil. Am I correct?

I would like to add a negitive buss along with either a fuse black or a positive buss and inline fuses. Where can it go?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: fuses in a rewire of a 57 sea skiff

Post by 54 Skiff » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:42 pm

I removed the ignition tonight. Using a multimeter it had 6 volts on the post goning into it and 3.24 going out. When arrempting to unscrew the wire both posts fell off due to corrosion. The leads on the end to the wires also fell off. Hopefully I will be able to add new connectors for now but want to rewire this summer.

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Re: fuses in a rewire of a 57 sea skiff

Post by Bilge Rat » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:22 am

Regarding circuit breakers or fuses, I'll lend an opinion from a Master Electrician's perspective:

While a fuse that opens from a short or overload must be replaced to restore the circuit and a breaker is just reset the handle, it must be remembered that a breaker is an electro-mechanical device that pretty much gets left in the ON position most of the time. Then in an instant, it must react to the short or overload immediately and trip to protect the wiring and loads. A lot of internal mechanical linkage must suddenly work flawlessly to do it's job. It is massively stressed during a dead-short condition as it must trip with considerably high amperage running through it for a few milliseconds. On a boat, the moist environment does not help this. I have personally witnessed breakers that refuse to trip under such a condition and just sit there and hum while the wiring burns down. Unfortunately, there's no way for the boat owner to test the breaker to see if it's up to the job. Periodically turning the breaker off and on will exercise the mechanical portion somewhat.

A fuse is pretty much a calibrated thermal link that burns open under a short or overload condition, about as fool proof as possible. If you know how to "read" a blown fuse, you can tell if it opened up due to a short or an overload, helpful in determining why it blew. Down side to fuses: you have to replace it so you must carry spares and in some cases you can put too large an amp rating fuse in, thereby compromising proper protection of the circuit.

I have worked with low voltage AC, DC and high voltage AC up to 4160 volts from .25 amps through 4000 amps. I won't say I have seen everything but except for some high voltage device failures, I prefer fuses in DC circuits. I rewired my boat with blade type fuses for the branch circuits including the ignition and used stud mounted high amperage fuses for the heavy current directly off of the batteries.
1966 Lyman Cruisette 25 foot "Serenity Now!"
1953 Chris Craft Sportsman 22 foot "Summerwind"

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Re: fuses in a rewire of a 57 sea skiff

Post by 54 Skiff » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:41 pm

Thank you for taking the time to answer. Fuses makes sense and that's the way I will go. So far I've been using the original wiring just to get her going. Tonight I replaced the ignition, the starter button and i now have 6.24 volts up to the ignition and 5.4 at the solenoid. I now have enough to engage the solenoid. It's better than the three volts I was getting. I also have 0000 gauge batter cables being made as the old cables were really heating up. Once I the new battery cables I will try to fire her up. Hopefully I can do that this weekend.

Next step is to figure out how many fuses I will need and star drawing up my wiring diagram.

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Re: fuses in a rewire of a 57 sea skiff

Post by Bilge Rat » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:56 am

Glad to hear your voltage drop issue has been corrected. Upping the battery cables to 4/0 is an excellent choice for a 6 volt system. I had 1/0 on a 1955 Chris Craft Sportsman that I upped to 2/0 and cranking speed of the starter improved a lot.
1966 Lyman Cruisette 25 foot "Serenity Now!"
1953 Chris Craft Sportsman 22 foot "Summerwind"

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Re: fuses in a rewire of a 57 sea skiff

Post by 54 Skiff » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:32 am

She's ALIVE!!! After replacing the starter button, ignition switch, solinoid, a few connections and the battery cables with 0000 gauge she started up. I ran her for an hour in the driveway yesterday and she sounded so sweet. I forgot how nice the exhaust sounds combined with the cooling water as it comes out the back.

Next up, get a bilge pump and get the lights working.

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