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6 v to 12v Generator Conversion For '52 Chrys. Crown or...

Your old Chris-Craft electrical system can be a challenge. If it runs on "juice" pose your questions and offer your advice here.

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PK44
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6 v to 12v Generator Conversion For '52 Chrys. Crown or...

Post by PK44 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:38 pm

want 6 volt,got 12 want the right look

I have 52 Chrysler crown with a the original 6v generator (alternator?), It's very well integrated into the block and I want the authenticity (or the look of anyway)

So Can these 6 volt generators be converted to 12? and if so, how big a deal is it. I have several semi talented electrical engineers in the family who, if given the proper direction could pull it off if its possible. I have found in many cases, mechanical stuff especially on this boat have an awful lot of mystique attached to them, but Dig a little and often there isn't that much to them.

Or, alternatively, would the 12v guts out of some common Chrysler of an earlier era, one thats still available fit in the original '52 housing. I know they made the marine crowns up to'55 and the motor to 62 I believe.

So any body have some neet tricks?

Regards, PK

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Conversion 6 to 12 volt

Post by evansjw44 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:44 am

Last year I had a 6 volt generator for an '47 Chrysler ACE convered to 12 volt. You just need to find a good re-build shop to do it. It wasn't cheap but, then, rebuilding an old generator is never cheap if you replace fields and stuff. You'll need a 12 volt voltage regulator too. About $60. I had the starter converted as well.


You can't get this done at PepBoys of the like.
Jim Evans

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Re: Conversion 6 to 12 volt

Post by PK44 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:55 pm

Thanks as always for the reply jim.

Now you get to see my inquisitive side.
evansjw44 wrote:...It wasn't cheap but,
we're talking $250-$500 then ?
evansjw44 wrote:, rebuilding an old generator is never cheap
if you replace fields and stuff.


O.K, So what are they really going do for my dime. I have a dissected '37 Herc generator in-front of me. My guess looking at its insides, the difference in 6v to 12v is probably either the number of windings or gauge of the significant lengths of wire.

I see superfluous cheap stuff, brushes, bearings, seals, etc., which should be replaced, but are cheap, available, easy to install & couldn't effect the voltage generated; So necessary but irrelevant to the actual voltage output.

Below looks like the only stuff that could make a diff. in the voltage. and would also be necessary in the rebuild of an old 6v generator.

1)The "staters" 2 curved plates, screwed into the inside of the housing, opposite each other and each & clamping down on rolled up wire dipped in a tar like goo. Replacing a sticky bundle of wire would seem to be fairly easy and the plates don't wear out so nothin there.. no big biggy (see below)

2) The rotor (the spinning part in the middle). A shaft(bearing on the ends) with a small drum to rub and pass volts from the brushes. The brushes are designed to wear out so said drum doesn't much. nothing to do here, no big expense.

But up against that drum is a bigger, beer can sized, iron drum with wires chis-crossing through it under the surface. As my theory goes, this wire would need to be replaced for a 12v upgrade. Due to the insulation's disintegration, it would want to be replaced in a 6v rebuild to. This looks like something very ugly and/or probably requiring some obsolete equipment in some pretty experienced hands.


So I guess, unless I'm missing something, weather its a rebuild or a 12v upgrade, The so it seems one ofthe few things that could really reasonably warrant a significant cost is the windings on the rotor. And, maybe, if theres more to it than meets the eye, the wound up wire that is part of the stators.

Anyway that how it looks to me...correct me if I'm wrong.
evansjw44 wrote:You can't get this done at PepBoys of the like.
Your kidding...


Below, the Outside housing Half of the equation. Inside the blue blob is the wound up bundele of wire dipped in tar. Combined with the rust color arched plate (curved iron) it make up the "stater"

Image


Out side housing and rotor: Rotor, a shaft with 2 cylinders on it. A lot of wire (purple) running just under the surface and out the other end of the big iron cylinder(maybe looping around under over and over). Yellow area makes contact with brushes,making an electrical connection while spinning. In background the stater wire bundle in blue with its wires sticking out of the bottom. Yellow glow is electrons or field.



Image

PK

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evansjw44
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What's Inside

Post by evansjw44 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:25 am

The mechanical parts of a 6 volt and 12 volt generator are essentially identical. The rotating piece, armature, is different in that it will have more turns of wire per segment of a smaller size wire than a 6 volt. The stationary part, field, is different in that it has more turns of smaller wire.

Now to upgrade from 6 to 12 volt the armature and field have to be replaced. Or, they have to be re-wound with the correct number turns of the right size of wire. Conceivably, you could do this in your basement. You'd have to make a fixture to get the field in the right shape. As for my upgrade, the shop I went to found the armature and fields available from a supplier. I don't know where they got them. One shop I checked with didn't want to do the job and told me they couldn't get the parts. I guess there wasn't enough profit in doing it for them.
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Post by PK44 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:21 pm

Thanks , Evan,

Another piece to the puzzle.

I have been Googling around for all things auto-lite. You wouldn’t believe the forums I ‘ve grazed through (Vintage tractors, Old army jeeps, Desoto clubs, etc), any place people are looking for 12v. There are simple solutions like the very contentious & debatable method of just adding a 12v regulator (shouldn’t work for long but for some swear it does),

Oddly, one with no debate so far is just changing to 12v field coils & putting a 12v regulator on. That would defy conventional wisdom but, out-there is a guy who's been happily putting around Indiana in a 53 pick-up for the last 5 yrs.with this very hack.(Some one ought to tell it won't work). Hardly a scientific, I know but, but why would he lie? not selling anything. Wonder if he knows something or just got freakishly lucky, or has no license so only drives up and down his driveway a few times a week.

Anyway, another little tidbit I don't know how to take, is that apparently, according to a guy who wants my money, these boat generators run backwards (sometimes? (maybe thinking reverse rotation motors?). I can see that being true in some configurations. But, wouldn't that just revers the polarity if couldn't find a backwards rotor an you used a combatable auto rotor?

Even if I did have a basement, and as much as I’d like to rewire the thing, I can’t see taking on the armature, at least the one I have dissected out of an old Herc. That just has to be done by some mechanical loom thing or some very very practiced & tiny fingered child labor.

The field doesn’t seem to be a big deal. Depending on the how exacting the length of the wire needs to be or how exact the # of windings needs to be, If every wind was just 1/16th” off, that would add up pretty quick, making that proposition a bit of a trick

So, I am living and learning, and especially appreciate your input..

Regards, PK

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Post by drrot » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:28 pm

The Chris-Craft generators run opposite of standard automotive generators because they are turned around and run off the flywheel. Chryslers are gear driven off the cam gear and spin standard automotive rotation. You need to find a technician that can understand how it works not just some parts changer. My rebuilder actually rewires the internals when converting Chris-Craft generators to use a voltage regulator instead of a Cut-Out. Maybe Glenn from http://acewichita.com/ knows what you need and could sell you the parts. He chimes in from time to time.
Image
12 Volt Chris-Craft field coils

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Post by PK44 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:05 pm

So the generator runs off the cam on the Chrysler's, now I remember that from when I was tearing the motor down. Thought it was a little strange. I was looking at my Herc. generator when I wrote.
Your Guy didn't show up in all my all thing generator related Googling, I'll have to give 'em call.

Regards, PK

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Re: 6 v to 12v Generator Conversion For '52 Chrys. Crown or

Post by boat_art » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:52 pm

I still havent seen anyone give an actual estimate of the price? Or did I get lost in all the chatter?
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.

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Re: 6 v to 12v Generator Conversion For '52 Chrys. Crown or

Post by cenger » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:27 am

Cost for conversion is $265 at All Tech Auto Electric in Danbury CT.
1935 Gar Wood 16-35
1929 Gar Wood 28-30

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Re: 6 v to 12v Generator Conversion For '52 Chrys. Crown or

Post by boat_art » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:29 pm

cenger wrote:Cost for conversion is $265 at All Tech Auto Electric in Danbury CT.
That's not bad at all! Worth it.
Tom
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.

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Re: 6 v to 12v Generator Conversion For '52 Chrys. Crown or

Post by davidvn » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:17 am

There is quite bit of work involved to rebuild and convert a generator,
Removing the pole shoes can be a challenge the screws that hold them were put in with an impact tool.
You can now clean and paint the case inside and out.
New field coils can now be installed .... not so easy the fields and pole shoes need to be fit properly So the armature can turn without hitting the shoes.
The commutator end needs to taken apart cleaned new springs bushings and brushes installed and third brush mech cleaned so adjustments can be made
The pulley end now gets taken apart cleaned and new bearing installed with shims to adjust end play.
The armature now get addressed. Based on expected engine RPM you can decide if you can reuse it or replace it.
If you reuse the original one. First you test it then you wash it reinsulate it bake it in a oven to solidify the insulation
machine the commutator end.
Next re assemble the entire unit test and adjust the output if it's a third brush type.
paint the unit and install the cut out.
This is a quick sketch of what it take There are other factors to consider,,,,, A circuit B circuit Rotation and RPM
We do quite a few of these in house because it's hard to find shops today that will do the full job

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