Bubbles bubbles bubbles

[tuobanur]

I am having problems with the dreaded bubbles, based on the fact that i'm only having the problem on the top side (sides and transom look great) I know its not the prep but have been told it has to do with how much I'm putting on. I'm rolling and tipping and on the last coat that I did today took extra pains to try and roll it on a little thinner and tip it a little more but still have the bubbles.
What do I need to do to eliminate the bubbles? I'm using Pettit 2015 Flagship, foam roller and foam brush.

[joanroy]

I've never had great success using the roll and tip method with varnish. The action of the roller seams to create a lot of bubbles. I apply with a good quality bristle brush and lightly tip with a foam brush as I go. Fresh varnish and a few drops of appropriate thinner or brushing liquid helps. I dip my brush tip into the varnish 1/4 inch and go with very light coats. It's hard to control the film thickness with a roller as a roller tends to get loaded up. I get a much better control with a good bristle brush.

[tkhersom]

I have yet to try the roll and tip method, but have heard GREAT things about it.

I would think tipping should get any bubbles from the roller out.

I love the Flagship Varnish. I use the Pettit 120/T-10 brushing thinner thinned to about 7 drips.

Keep us posted.

[boat_art]

I do roll and tip method almost exclusively, but with Epiphanes only. A couple things come to mind. Are you doing too large of an area before tipping out? This can cause the tipping brush to drag a bit. Also, if only on the top, are you using radiant heat? or direct sun? These can speed up drying. Lastly, I assume you are stirring the varnish rather than shaking it, right?
Tom

[tkhersom]

Lastly, I assume you are stirring the varnish rather than shaking it, right?
Tom

Great point!

I always overlook the obvious questions.

[mbigpops]

What coat number are you applying ?

You are going to have air bubbles until the last coats. Just keep knocking them down before the next coat.

Mark

[tuobanur]

Thanks guys.
I don't think am doing to large of an area before tipping, for example, I roll out half of the bow area and then tip, that is about as large an area I do before tipping. No radiant heat, no sun, as a matter of fact, when i put the coat on yesterday it seem to be a perfect day, temperature (72 degrees) with low humidity, really seem to be tipping well.
And I never shake the can, always stir. Like I said, my problems are only on the top side, sides and transom look great.
Yesterday was the 6th coat and I have been sanding out the bubbles from previous coats.
Maybe I need to turn the boat on it's side..

[boat_art]

I never roll more than 1-2 square feet at a time before tipping.
Tom

[tkhersom]

Maybe I need to turn the boat on it's side..

Now that is funny!

[kleiner]

Maybe it's dust and not bubbles at all.

- Kevin

[John DeVries]

Or, even worse . . . fisheyes!

John

[tuobanur]

Nope, it's bubbles..what is amazing is that I have not had any trouble with trash or fish-eye, as a matter of fact just got my first insect on this last coat and it was a tiny one.

Really can't see anything in this photo, just thought I would include it.

[tuobanur]

and this is what happens when you use to much varnish,,,it melts..

[mbigpops]

Are you going to do a float test in that cement pond ?

[tuobanur]

Are you going to do a float test in that cement pond ?

Funny you ask that, I'm a part owner of a crane company and had planned on doing just that but a good friend of mind owns Scout Boat and allowed me to put it in the same pool they use to check out there boats.
My reason for putting it in the water was two fold, one, to check for leaks and the other, to mark the water line.

[iamallthumbs]

The photo of the melted varnish needs further explanation. In an other post I asked for help with bubbles and received various answers. My investigation led me to giving up on the "perfect" varnish finish by brush or roller. Instead, I went to the auto store and purchased Megular's products for buffing out paint. It works just as well on varnish and the result is like a piano top. Yes it takes some work but you are practically guaranteed a perfect finish. Go to the Brass Bell Spring 2006 for a description of the process. Get your varnish layer as thick as you want then smooth it out with 1200-1500 grit with or without water. This will get rid of your bubbles. Then use the high cut Megular's and polish the surface. Check it often with a strong light and you will see the fine swirls from the sandpaper go away. Use a finer cut to get the mirror surface and finish it with the fine swirl remover to get the piano like finish.

I have found that they make dozens of different numbers and different auto supply stores carry different number combinations. Keep looking until you find the rough cut to speed the process up. By the way, their help staff is outstanding. The guy I talked to spent a long time answering my questions and discussing options and material to use.

Have fun, only 6-7 months till boating season comes around again.

[tuobanur]

Thanks Mike, yes I had already planned to sand and buff the last coat and hopefully that will do it but I would still like to know the secret to a bubble free finish.

As to the melting that was a joke, when I moved my boat outside Sunday the imprint was left which is the residuals from wet sanding.

[MikeM]

I have struggled with bubbles, too, over the years. Mostly on the sides and transom, just like you. I thought I had tried everything from better monitoring of outside conditions, thinner adjustments, different brushes and rollers. I recently stumbled upon an epiphanes roller tray and cover combo. I figured, what the heck, and I bought it. I may be crazy but I think it took care of the problem. They look like regular foam rollers but maybe there a little denser. BTW, I use epiphanes wood finish for build coats and epiphanes clear for my last few top coats. I don't polish the sides but usually do the decks. I used to use Captains but switched to epiphanes to eliminate sanding between build coats (and because of bubbles!). I sand about every 4-5 coats now, until the end.

Good luck.

[tuobanur]

"I have struggled with bubbles, too, over the years. Mostly on the sides and transom, just like you."

MikeM, actually my problems are on the top side, not the sides and transom. I also tried different rollers but to no avail, I think it has to do with getting just the right amount on, not to thick not to thin, and tipping out properly. The only thing I haven't tried yet is to use a good bristle brush for applying, plan on doing that on the next coat.

[mbigpops]

Terry,

What you are referring to is the deck. The sides are called topsides. This should clear up any confusion.

Mark

[tkhersom]

Terry,

What you are referring to is the deck. The sides are called topsides. This should clear up any confusion.

Mark

Thanks Mark!

I would have gotten that one wrong also.

[Tightline5]

I use the cheap four inch foam " trim paint" rollers from Lowe's, and tip with high quality "Jen" foam brushes. I have never had "bubbles" with these products. I did get a lot of bubbles with the expensive yellow West System foam rollers I tried. Remember temp. And humidity play an important roll in this process . I did use Captains, but now use Schooner 96.

[steve bunda]

/
Varnishing is an acquired skill with experience and a little luck at times. Everything can make the varnish work well or turn the resulting coat into a nightmare. It is like everything else , experience with multiple failures and or good results will give the finisher a feel for the process. I could explain how to set up and varnish one day , base on weather , temperature , humidity, hull temp, static electricity, prep work , lighting, wind , mood, with good results. And then the next day a completely different set of conditions will change the varnish application , which includes , varnish consistency , roller application, brush stroke , etc.
I am comfortable with epithanes varnish and Jen brushes and rollers, sometimes it takes 10 to 15 brushes to apply one coat of varnish.
YOU MAY ASK? What ? 12 brushes for one finish coat on a 19 foot Chris Craft , Yes , sometimes the brush fills up with too much product and losses the right feel , so I toss it. Other times the brush is working areas that have the possibility of dust residue , such as corners and holes, then I toss it.
An Old-timer taught me the less you work the varnish, or stroke the brush , the better! I have rolled varnish on the deck of the boat and never brushed it , It came out nice. A rare instance , but it can happen.

Keep trying ! Rome wasn't built in a day ,, steve

[tuobanur]

Steve, you are so right, I also go through a few brushes per coat for some of those same reasons and one of the better coats I applied was rolled and never brushed, go figure, it is definitely an art,,,of sorts. It can also be a pain in the a$$.

[offshorespars]

I have just completed the refinishing of the ceiling boards on my U22. I used Captains for the build coats because of the quick drying time. I roll and tip using 4" white foam rollers from Lowes and tip with a 3" foam brush. When using Captains I get a lot of bubbles but they usually disappear in the tipping process. For the final coat I used Epithanes clear. I thin the Epithanes to the same consistency of Captains. The Epithanes had virtually no bubbles during rolling and was very smooth to the point of perhaps skipping the tipping process. This was the first time I used Epithanes for the finished coat and will do it this way for the future. In the past I exclusively used Captains for all coats and painstakingly prepared for the final coat to ensure a minimum of dust. But I always seemed to have dust. Now after reading this thread my "dust" may have been residual bubbles that did not come out during tipping. Another thing I found with Captains is that it tends to shrink over the season if I had done a complete strip, stain and varnish. Near the end of the season I could see the grain imprint even after a dozen coats. I read in another post that someone else had the "shrinking" problem and cured it using Epithanes for the final coats.