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Riviera Refinish Material Quatities

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Riviera Wish
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Riviera Refinish Material Quatities

Post by Riviera Wish » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:53 pm

I am about to start refinishing the hull and deck on an 18 foot 1952 Riviera. My questions are regarding the quantities of refinish materials needed for the restoration. The idea is to order sufficient amount of material so as not to run out; on the other hand the materials are expensive enough, without purchasing too much. The questions with regard to material quantities are as follows:
o Quantity of stain(s) used on blonde deck area, and the mahogany colored portion of the deck and topsides?
o Quantity of paint for one re-coat of the copper bottom?
o Quantity of CPES or Petit 2018 sealer to seal the deck and topsides?
o Quantity of varnish (not thinned) for ONE complete coat on the deck and topsides?

Advice from those that have 'been there' will be appreciated.
Steve

Howard Lehman
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Re: Riviera Refinish Material Quatities

Post by Howard Lehman » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:10 pm

Hi,
I'll try to answer your questions based on the way I apply the finish to my boats. Others could have different and better ways of doing this. I like Interlux #573 Chris Craft Mahogany stain. One pint (@ $30 per pint) can usually last for the entire "red/brown" color on an 18' Riviera as the ceilings are red and white vinyl, but I don't want to run out of stain so I purchase two pints. I follow instructions and thin with Interlux 333 Thinner to a desired consistency that has worked for me, one quart will usually be adequate, but as I add a little 333 to the last coats of varnish, I usually purchase two quarts (@ $20 per quart.) I really liked the blond gel stain I purchased from Dave Jerome for the blond planks. Dave had this mixed by Wood Kote I believe. I can't remember the exact cost right now. One quart will probably be more than enough for all of the blond. If I seal with Pettit 2018, I can usually get two coats of sealer from one quart (@ $42), but I don't want to run out in the middle, so usually have two quarts on hand. I can usually get @ 2 coats of varnish from one liter of Epifanes Wood Finish Gloss (@ $37 per liter) as there is some thinning especially in the early coats, but later coats seem to take more varnish. As you said you want quantities for ONE coat of varnish, I'll go with one liter of varnish. I use Epifanes Brushing Thinner, and buy one liter (@ $12 per liter), it is enough for 4-5 coats of varnish.(I also wipe down the boat with this thinner before I apply each coat of varnish.) For the last several coats I use Epifanes Clear High Gloss varnish (@ $34 per liter). Bottom paint has had a good amount of discussion. I figure @ one quart of Pettit 1959 Racing Bronze per coat, (@ $73 per quart). The last boat that I restored I bought a bottom paint from Kush, and it was @ $100 a gallon) You will also need red and white Boot Stripe paint for the waterline, and I buy 1/2 pint each (@ $15 for each 1/2 pint). Using the quantities I listed above, you will have some leftover amounts, but its very helpful to have to remedy the scratches and blemishes that do appear. I based all $$ amounts as found in the 2015 "Classic Boat Connection" catalog. Of course there are other excellent brands of stain, sealer, paint and varnish, and various prices, but this should give you a fairly good idea of quantity/cost. Good Luck and have a good time with your Riviera. Regards, Howard

Riviera Wish
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Re: Riviera Refinish Material Quatities

Post by Riviera Wish » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:01 pm

Howard,
Thank you for your response, I will your guidance for purchasing initial orders of sealer, thinner, varnish, etc.
I am curious why you did not use Dave Jerome's jel stain for the mahogany portion of the Riviera? From what I have read it is easier to use that the filler stain and a consistent color is easier to obtain. I do plan on using Jerome's blonde stain on the Riviera.
Also, how did you like the Kush bottom paint? I have heard good reports on Kush's copper bottom paint.
Steve

Howard Lehman
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Re: Riviera Refinish Material Quatities

Post by Howard Lehman » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:33 pm

I did purchase Dave Jerome's red/brown mahogany colored stain, and hope to apply it to the 20' Riviera I have in my shop now. The owner of the boat I used the blond gel stain on, a 1955 17' CC Sportsman (he wanted a number of special coloring things done to the boat), requested I use Interlux #573 on the red/brown portion of decks, hull and ceilings. I do want to experiment more with the red/brown gel stain before I use it however. I have seen the stain on other boats and really like the color. The boat I used the Kush paint with is going to spend some time in brackish/salt water. I heard that it should work well in that environment. The paint went on very well, and looks very good. I do like reading the thoughts, products used and methods put into practice by people who write things on Boat Buzz, and am always willing to try different things. I have lots of scrap wood to try things out with. Regards, Howard

Riviera Wish
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Re: Riviera Refinish Material Quatities

Post by Riviera Wish » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:12 pm

Howard
I just finished staining a portion of the Riviera with Jerome's Red Mahogany jel'd stain. Application of the stain was 'a piece of cake' as advertised, and consistent color was easily achieved. However, the result looks very red. Will the varnish tend to darken and add a brownish color to the finished product?
If not I may attempt to darken the stain with a Min-Wax additive.
I had some very light colored boards in a portion of the deck and brushed some Dark Walnut Min-Wax stain along with the Red Mahogany and it blended the lighter boards in well with the adjoining darker boards.
Since the sealer used will be CPES I plan to wait three days for the stain to dry as I have read that CPES 'wakes up" the stain.
Any interim advice would be appreciated. Have never done this before.
Steve

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maritimeclassics
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Re: Riviera Refinish Material Quatities

Post by maritimeclassics » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:13 am

I have been using the Wood-Kote jel stain for a long time and was with Dave when the company contacted him for correct colors. You should never have to add anything for color and it does look dark when you apply it but that is a good thing to me. It will lighten up when you apply coats of varnish. I am not a fan of the CPES over stain and think it is just to hot of a product to apply over stain and moves the stain around. Just some clear sealer works the best for me. I don't think there is any advantage to CPES over stain but we do use it on the inner side of the planking and everywhere under the waterline. The stain is going to be sealed with many coats of varnish and the little bit of CPES is really not going to preserve the wood under that many coats. The pre-war and post war was mixed to exactly match the old stain that was used at Chris Craft.
Family member of Chris Craft founder
Owner of Maritime Classics
http://www.maritimeclassics.com
Ph# 231-486-6148

Restoration Projects:
1936 25' Gar Wood Custom
1947 Ventnor Hydroplane
1957 17' Deluxe Runabout
1948 25' Chris Craft Sportsman Twin
1959 19' Sliver Arrow Hull #75
1929 26' Chris Craft Custom Runabout
1937 25' Chris Craft Custom Runabout

Howard Lehman
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Re: Riviera Refinish Material Quatities

Post by Howard Lehman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:15 am

Mike's post gives great advice on the gel stain, and not adding another stain on top of it. If you look on several of the web sites of places selling and or restoring boats that are listed in the far right column of Woody Boater and other sites like Antique Boat Center etc you can see lots of examples of restored boats. I recommend you focus on the post WW II Chris Crafts like your Riviera, late 40's early to mid 50's. Look at the color of the boats, and you will see the more red/less brown color, and that it is consistent with all of the Chris Craft boats. Dave Jerome researched these, as Mike said, and came up with a very authentic color for his gel stain. I suggest that you trust Dave's expertise. His gel stain, as with most stains when dried does look red, and of course flat as it lacks any glossy finish yet. With coats of sealer and varnish, the color just wakes up, getting more and more deep and glowing with each coat. There are times when another darker stain is added over a previous color, and dried stain, as in the darker covering boards and kingplanks on some models. You will hear of people doing this for those reasons. (This is tricky, and those that have found ways to produce those beautiful, almost chocolate brown covering boards and kingplanks have my deep admiration). But, adding another colored stain over the dried stain of an entire boat could leave big problems. Mike Green (maritime classics....just click on his http below his post and his web site comes up) has a perfect shot of what stain looks like with no sealer on on the restoration of a 1929 Chris Craft limo topper. There is a photo showing two boats side by side, one (or both) just stained. This shows what that stain color looks like before the coats of sealer and varnish are added. As far a darkening certain boards, that can be tricky, but possible. There are times when overstaining, adding stain on certain already varnished boards, can darken the board, but there are pros and cons there. This technique is described on a number of forums. Practicing on scrap wood will give you a better idea of what to expect. I hope you are having success with your project and are enjoying the process. Good Luck, Howard

Riviera Wish
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Re: Riviera Refinish Material Quatities

Post by Riviera Wish » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:49 pm

Thanks Mike and Howard I will take your advice, although I can't go back and undo the darker stain I added to blend-in the lighter boards. Hope I did not create major problems for myself. Plan to wait about a week before CEPS sealer is applied (already purchased the CEPS and at $64 for 2 quarts can't waste it!). Schooner varnish to follow sealer. Plan to use jel'd stain for the blonde area also.
As I proceed through the 'weeds' of refinishing I will report back on my progress or lack there of.
Thank you both again for your experienced advice,
Steve

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