Membership Poll, Part I. Please tell us what you think, ASAP

by **Bill Basler** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:47 am

First read the last posts on this thread:

http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... &start=121

Please take the time to take these two polls. These will help me make some tough decisions, as we work toward getting the Chris-Craft Antique Boat Club on solid footing.

by **drrot** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:21 am

I feel that eliminating the BRASS BELL would cause several members to quit as that is thier only benefit as a member.

by **JohnKadimik** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:37 am

I agree with the good doctor.

by **Bill Basler** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:57 am

Jim and John, I suspect you both speak the truth here. Based on the responses I receive daily via other means, I know how appreciated the printed Bell is. See my last post on this three just this morning.

http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... &start=121

Cast your votes!

by **Al Benton** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:31 am

I know that search engines have lead people to the CCABC website via the Archive and other site benefits (Classic Boat Wiki, Boat Buzz). Once they have seen previews of the Archive some have joined in order to see more "members only" benefits offered and to participate in discussions.

Could this be enhanced by offering a "Preview" version of the Brass Bell contents? It would mean creating another version of the magazine that's visible to guests but may serve to add to membership and may offer an expanded platform for ad sales that are now limited to members only.

by **Sportin Wood** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:27 pm

I have only received the Fall 2010 and Winter 2011 editions of the Brass Bell this year (I joined in December 2010).

Is there some way that I can receive the Miss Arrowhead issue?

Thanks!

by **Al Benton** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:38 pm

Sportin Wood,

I may be naive but I'm not sure what the Miss Arrowhead is or what issue it may have been featured in. The club has a stock of most back issues available for purchase by members. If you know which issue it appears in you could check with Bill Basler to see if it's available.

It's embarrassing for all of us but you are in possession of the latest issues of the Brass Bell. Bill Basler just posted good news about the Spring and Summer 2011 issues. We will be receiving them in the mail in the not too distant future. Being cranked into the seasonal rush while the USPS has extra help we may see them well before Christmas.

He is also working feverishly to publish the Fall 2011 Brass Bell, immediately followed by the Winter 2012 issue. If all goes well we will off to a great start for the new year.

by **mattwells** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:22 am

Call me greedy, but I want a hard copy magazine to look at and keep on my nightstand and refer to now and again.

We live in a digital world. I read all my news online. I spend literally eight hours a day in front of a computer. I got into wood boats for the tactile experience that balances my electronic world.

I certainly don't "need" a Brass Bell that is at the quality level it is now. I love it. I appreciate it. But is it an option to put out a magazine that is somewhere between a black-and-white newsletter and what I'd consider a really nice, quality bound magazine?

by **mattwells** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:24 am

And I don't really get the third option. How would doing both improve the club's bottom line? Assuming that is the motive here?

by **Bill Basler** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:50 am

Matt, this is good input followed by a good question. I don't think we can necessarily tie this Brass Bell poll directly back to the other poll about dues value. I am merely trying to gauge where everyone is at in their wants.

There is no question that doing more cannot cost less. There are multiple ways to issue a digital Brass Bell, some more elegant and functional than others. To create a PDf of a Bell can happen in minutes. To create more of a rich electronic experience with embedded videos, hyperlinks, etc, in an ePub or .folio or .issue formats, this would be a new expense.

Let's try to have this poll focus on "what do you want from your Brass Bell."

by **Matt Smith** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:57 am

I like to sniff the fresh ink of the Brass Bell, the electronic version is strange. I like to go old school on the magazine deal. We just need to pay for that. Look at an issue of Rodders journal.. The Brass Bell is the gold standard for our passion. Don't dilute its specialness by delivering it via email. If you need a fix, the Boat Buzz is the wayto go, and if you need to feel smarter, go to Woody Boater. My bad spelling and dumb mistakes make anyone look smart!

by **Woody Gal** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:36 am

Ditto what Matt said!

by **farupp** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:08 pm

Double ditto to what Matt and Susan said.

When we have guests over they always pick up and look at the Brass Bell laying out on the table.

Frank

by **Al Benton** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:02 pm

It's the ink!!! There's a secret ingredient in it that's tranquilizing. Must have more, now!!! Mine is waring out for all the sniffing, need more soon!!!

Was it my computer or was Boat Buzz locked down this morning? I was asked to log in in order to read any topic. Now it's back to normal.

by **Bill Basler** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:11 pm

Al, in light of all of the discussion about putting all topics on lock down, I tested this this morning by making all Boat Buzz categories visible, but the actual topics hidden unless a user logs in.

This had the unforeseen effect of breaking the topic posts feature on our home page and on Woodyboater...both of which are important to us.

We actually had extensive discussion about how to structure Boat Buzz and how visible we should make topics. The system that we currently use was a result of those conversations.

If we still feel strongly that everything here should be only available to those who can log in, I am going to have to try something different, as locking down the topics with the controls I have on this aging form is breaking some other things. Maybe this is something we address in the new version of Boat Buzz.

by **Bill Basler** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:43 pm

See this topic from many year ago: http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... .php?t=106

by **mfine** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:46 pm

I like the current system. I would have been far less likely to join if I did not get to read the forum and learn what a valuable resource this community is. At somepoint, lurkers will want to join so they can post. If you hide it, we don't show up in google searches and the new owners don't realize what we can offer so they never even realize they should join.

Maybe require login to see pictures and attachments and perhaps older "archived" threads, but only if it is easy enough to do with the forum software we use.

by **Al Benton** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:12 pm

Bill, thanks. Thought my computer was broke or that you had just locked down our club discussions here.

Matt, I think you are right. The ones that read may learn something but join to ask their own questions later. It's a great place for guests to visit and become envious.

by **rusty** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:32 pm

I'm a new member of 2 years. I joined CCABC because I found an old 1958 Custom Sportsman that needed a lot of help. The web site is a great place to find what is right, how to do it, and who to have do it. That alone to me was worth the dues. That said the Brass Bell is great! I really like print! I spend to much of my life glued to this PC. When I get up to the lake on the weekend I like to go out to the garage and work on the boat and cars and just relax with a cool beverage. I get all my magazines up there where I can just kick back, relax when I get back in, and read real print. I have magazines about cars, boats, plants, parts catalogs and more, but I have been waiting for the Brass Bell for months and months. It is really cool to put the BB out on the coffee table for my freinds to look at.

I have been the Editor of a trade association news letter for many years in the past. We went through the same issues with dues and the publication. The BOD looked at the news letter as cash drain. We had a paid professional doing the work no one had the time to do. They looked at the postage cost, but not advertising revenue. They elemenated the paid professional and got rid of the postage. Then we went to web only. Well, It was a resounding success. The membership did not have time to contribute, no one logged on to read the news letter that had no content so the advertisors dropped out and our revenue went down. Clubs do not live by dues alone. Please consider the repercussions.

Before I go, my wife is always on me to "get rid of all these magazines". She puts them into a box and I take them out to the garage. Then I spend a day or two going through them again. Would you do that with your email? You would be surprised what you missed on the first go round.

by **Matt Smith** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:06 am

Rusty, you are doing exactly what I am doing and according to our media experts.. I own a marketing firm as well... Niche based magazines are on the rise, not declining for all the reasons you spoke about. And no one ever throws them away. The deal here is to not think of them as magazines like people or time.. More like a hybrid of a book and art.. Nat geo is a perfect case. No timely stuff, just beauty and putting what we love in a spotlight. The brass bell is a key part of the classic boat world right now and bigger than just chris crafts now. but sadly.. It all comes with a cost.. I know what it takes to make a issue of a news letter and of a new brass bell.. It's an insanely different thing. These are quarterly books now.. Rodder journal has a staff and empire of sorts that makes that happen.. And it costs 75 bucks a year. And bill is one guy on a quarter of that... How is that being paid for, by his time...and the burn out effect on that is inevitable...and not a business model that can sustain itself any longer. 75 to 100 a year, That's the real number we need to be at honestly.. And would any of us really notice the difference in our check books? No... That's half a tank of fuel now... We need to just make this happen and get on with it.. We can vote.. All 100 of us now that care and make this happen. I want my brass bell! And more importantly, the sponsors that paid for advertising want and deserve it to be done and shipped on a regular basis. It's no longer possible to do this on a ridiculously low yearly due payment. Let's get real.. And for gods sake let's make it happen now! My other brass bells are becoming grey pattern magazines..

by **Al Benton** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:35 am

Matt,

You need to remember that ACBS dues are at $45.00 annually and that amount gets you the Rudder. The additional $30.00 that you paid comes back to your local Chapter. So their Rudder budget comes from the $45.00 plus ad sales. With nearly 8,000 members it's a nice budget to work from.

The last Rudder appears to have been enhanced in quality level. It's not at the same level as our own Brass Bell but the Fall 2011 Rudder is very nice.

by **Matt Smith** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:49 am

Your right Al...The ACBS offers us all a governing body that unites us all. Gives us all a voice so to speak, I support the ACBS as a lobbying group, and united voice..And the local organizations do an amazing job and carry the day for sure.. BUT, if we are comparing value.. The Boat Buzz and Brass Bell.. when it comes out, are worth the cost alone. The archives, all the stuff that is at our fingertips is amazing. My subscription to Rodders Journal is just for the magazine. Thats it.. And thats a value.. My point is.. 75 bucks is were this needs to be. 50 bucks is like fiberglassing a leaky bottom.. Lets do this right, so we loose some.. Fine.. We gain more by offering a more reliable and robust product.

by **RRGadow** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:29 am

Matt Smith wrote:Your right Al...The ACBS offers us all a governing body that unites us all. Gives us all a voice so to speak, I support the ACBS as a lobbying group, and united voice..And the local organizations do an amazing job and carry the day for sure.. BUT, if we are comparing value.. The Boat Buzz and Brass Bell.. when it comes out, are worth the cost alone. The archives, all the stuff that is at our fingertips is amazing. My subscription to Rodders Journal is just for the magazine. Thats it.. And thats a value.. My point is.. 75 bucks is were this needs to be. 50 bucks is like fiberglassing a leaky bottom.. Lets do this right, so we loose some.. Fine.. We gain more by offering a more reliable and robust product.

Amen Matt!

by **mfine** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:31 am

I agree with everything after the big BUT. That said, with so many words spelled correctly, I question the authenticity of the post. Hmmm.

by **Matt Smith** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:39 am

What the hell, how did that happen? My spelling is getting better despite myself! HA

by **jrhysalexander** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:52 am

Bill,
Tough to try to help without any financial information. If we cannot sustain the Brass Bell with the current dues structure, I'd also consider reducing frequency to 3/yr as an alternative. I wonder what % of revenue goes to each club activity? What % of Brass Bell expense is covered by advertizing, etc, etc?
Keep a stiff upper lip as you slog thru these issues. The club is a great resource.
Jim

by **knotty48** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:03 pm

Bill,

Can you clarify about the guest vs a member shown as logged in. I know sometimes I go on the Buzz and view the latest articles without logging in. If I see something I would like to post a response or add a new topic to the Buzz I login. I tried something tonight and when I went into the Buzz it showed I was the 28th guest I then logged in and it went to 27 guest and 1 member. I believe some of these guest we are seeing are actually members of our group doing the same as I do from time to time.

When I joined the club years ago it was the best thing I did after purchasing my boat and starting the restoration.

pete

by **Al Benton** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:34 pm

Pete,

There's no distinction between a guest and a "not logged on" member, i.e. we're all guests until we are logged in.

I remember well when you joined and started working on your 17' Deluxe. Yours was one of the best restoration projects on a post-war one that I have seen. To me, it represents the significance and the power of this Forum.

by **Bill Basler** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:34 am

Al is correct. If you login via your club username and password, you are demonstrating that you are a member. Anyone...member, or otherwise...who is not logged in, is a guest.

by **Woody Gal** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:49 am

I have renewed my membership and made a donation. I like the Brass Bell in print and online. It's great to get on the forum without logging in, just to see what's happening. Keep everything the way it is now, I hate change. Raise the membership rate to $50 or $75, whatever makes financial sense for now and the future. Get caught up and timely with the Brass Bell and then, let's not have to hash this out again!

Short and not so sweet, but I gotta pack for Newport News!

Membership Poll, Part I. Please tell us what you think, ASAP

Brass Bell delivery method

Membership Poll, Part I. Please tell us what you think, ASAP

Membership poll: part I

dues & magazine

Membership poll: part I

Who is online