Pre War Dash and Gauge Panel Research

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Clum switch

Postby Al Schinnerer » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:49 am

Peter, Good series of pictures. I'm sure that you're aware of a basic problem that occurs with old Clum switches, but for those who aren't, it's the fact that the back part of the switch that contains all of the switch contacts is composed of many layers of paper. Over time, due to the spring pressure of the rotating switch components, the back tends to bow out at the center. The result is that ignition switch connection, which is in the center of the switch, becomes intermittent (or non-existent). I've had several boats where this occurred. I tried to flatten the back out with water, heat and pressure, but couldn't resolve the problem permanently. So I developed a replacement switch. Al
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Postby PK44 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:03 pm

Hey Al,

Thanks for the complement. Took everything I had to rescue those pictures in photo shop (ever seen a rare green clum) Camera problems, long story.

You give to much credit, I knew zilch about the inner working (and not workings) of these things, just what they looked like.

Remarkably the back of mine does not appear to have that "bow". That's remarkable more in that it was sold as a '20's something switch. But, it was probably out of a car and maybe didn't see the more extreme environments of a boat.

I guess a fix would be to cut a new one out of polycarbonate or something, salvage and reinstall the electrical connectors, peal some layers off the old one (with the text on it), and glue it on for affect.

I bet you've tried something like that and more to.

Regards, PK
Last edited by PK44 on Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Don Vogt » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:17 pm

PK, i will dig up a picture of the back side of my clum switch and add it to the collection here. Thanks for the great pictures.
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Postby PK44 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:49 pm

OK Don,

Hope those pictures were insightful. Pretty hard to fully understand the workings in picture. It's a little like a rubics cube.

Regards, PK
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Postby Don Vogt » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:49 am

PK, here are my clum switch and key pictures. the first picture is a standard clum from my '38 deluxe. Note the key hole is like a sideways W. The clum keys have ridges and grooves in the center in addition to the key cuts on the side of the blank. the second shows the assembled back side. the 3d is at a profile that shows some of the screws are elevated. the 4th is a standard clum key front with a center groove and ridges on either side of that. the next is the reverse side with no lettering on the head of the key. (The next is a duplicate I cant seem to get rid of.) The last is a close up of the head of the key. Note that they only made about 90 some different keys and the keys came pre cut and the key numbert was stamped below the "Clum". This same number appears on the side on the lock cylinder itself.

Once inserted the key turns clockwise about 1/4 turn down to start. the start lock is independent of the lever which merely controls the running lights.

It looks like my clum switch is slightly different from yours, both in not having the rivets on the black metal surrounding the key area and lever, and also your key hole is a slot rather than the W style that supports the grooved key. Interesting.
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Postby PK44 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:53 pm

Thanks Don, I hope you didn't pull that apart just for me.

Ya, my switch is definitely not out of a deluxe for all the reasons you mentioned. It does though have many of the critical proportions detail. The rest is just some tweak, a little machining and a little solderin my prototype shop. You'll never know the dif.

That's very amusing about the key numbers. One reason I can imagine, having taken one apart, is their are only 95 tumbler combination possible. Which is irrelevant,I tell ya, those locks aren't made to stop a thief, not even some little miscreant.

Regards, PK
Last edited by PK44 on Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PK44 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:35 am

For some reason I can't respond to your PM directly but, that 35 custom was interesting in that it does not have a door on the glove box unlike the few others I have seen.

It also has the exact same, but incorrect, wheel as mine. No matter though. The more I see the better decisions I can make. These thing are not easy to find

Regards, Pk
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Postby Don Vogt » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:10 am

pk44, see the question under boat buzz support on interior stain. I noted that one of the pictures you uploaded on page 2 here shows a 19' custom with a dark stripe on the dash between the two pieces of metal. Don A. says this is incorrect. I am wondering where that picture came from?

Still looking for a picture of a late 39 17 dash after the clum switch was eliminated.
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Postby NSJA » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:29 pm

Don,

Where do you see the dark stripe between the 2 metal strips? The entire dash looks uniform in color to me...

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Postby Don Vogt » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:43 pm

nsja, look at pk's june 1 posting, the picture of the 19, labeled, sans panel, on the right. you can see the stripe.
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Postby NSJA » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:51 pm

Don,

OK, I was looking at the photo that you posted:

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Postby Don Vogt » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:59 pm

ok, that is why i am a little confused. Al's dash clearly has no stripe, don A. says there is none, but the picture that pk posted has one. I am wondering if there is some urban legend that says there should be a stripe, or how it is that some people feel it is appropriate so they put one in? There is a lot of "lore" in the hobby as to what people think is correct, and it often gets passed on, and then someone like don a. comes along and shows thru research that it aint so. Maybe this is one of those things?
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1936 CC Double Cockpit Fwd

Postby greshamj » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:55 pm

Hi,

I wanted to piggy back on this thread.

Just purchased a 1936 CC double cockpit fwd and progress is being made toward restoration. It will take going through the entire boat.

The instrument gauges all need restoration and I also need a tempurature gauge. Can anyone suggest individuals who can do this type work?

Side note: What I found interesting was that Peter had a picture of my dash in this thread. I'm sure he found it on Ebay. :-)

Thank you.

John Gresham

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Postby runabout36 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:02 am

John, I restored a 1936 model 515 19' Double Cockpit Forward. I have the same 4 gauge Stewart Warner panel. It was restored by Mark Clawson. I also needed a temp gauge . I found one that fit the panel and Mark refaced it with the correct gauge face. My original panel had worn thin on the edges, actually thru at one point and could not be repaired. They found an original and restored it, with the "engine turning" detail behind the gauges. Mark Clawson does awesome work.

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Postby Don Ayers » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:09 am

Here is a pic of the most recent panel by Clawson. He does do fantastic work but you will have to stay on him.


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Postby PK44 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:57 pm

Tom and John,

Those temp guages sure are hard to find. I saw one on ebay in a year and a half looking every day. What I was ready to do before I found all mine(...in my own boneyard), was to use postwar guages.

If you take the big chrome bezel/ring off them they fit pre-wars perfect. The thin chrome ring is just right, domed glass-perfect, gauge face right size, clicks right in (needs refinish... & backdated graphics of course) Then, you hollow them out find any old gauges with right sweeps for the new movements and adapt. The cans will hold anything out there now. All that's left is needles.

A post war tach will work with just new graphics (maybe a needle). That's how I wound up with three postwar tachs before I found my own gauges. One was to be itself, a tach, one, the oil pressure gauge and one, because it was to cheap.

The remarkable thing is the is the mechanisms are brass so they don't corrode. Mine sat in the ivy outside half buried for 6 years. With a little drop of WD and some fiddling, they're all mechanical, I was able loosen three of them up to where the needles move and spring freely. I would not be surprised if they still work.

BTW. Yes that gauge panel pic. was right off ebay. Looks like it found a good home.

Regards, PK
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Postby Don Vogt » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:31 am

Like to reactivate this blog. In jan. of 39, cc eliminated the clum switch on the '39 17' deluxe runabouts. We now have a picture of this arrangement that will be upload by Jeff shortly. It is similar to the arrangement seen on the '40 deluxes, with the key, beehive starter button, and instrument panel and running light switches spread out on the right hand side of the dash beyond the steering wheel.
Last edited by Don Vogt on Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jeffreyarogers » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:36 pm

Attached, find dash photos of my 1939 CC 17' Deluxe "Legend". She's hull #71528 - the very last of the "pre-barrelback" 17's produced. All switches and the starter button are 1939 originals. Dash itself is original - with bungs filling extra holes that had been drilled over the years.

Apologies for the poor photo composure. Legend is currently upside down - undergoing a new bottom installation.
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Postby Don Vogt » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:23 am

thanks, Jeff. these are interesting photos that show the arrangement of the key and switches after cc no longer used the clum switch.
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Postby Don Vogt » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:10 am

It has been called to my attention that the article in volume xxxvi, no. 4, fall 2010 has an error in the article on the 1937-39 deluxe runabout. In listing the order of the instruments in the s-w 4 panel gauge set up, the oil pressure and tach gauges were reversed. the correct order, from left to right, is temperature gauge, oil pressure gauge, tach, and ammeter. this is clearly shown here in this discussion.
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Re:

Postby dougz » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:38 am

Don Vogt wrote:here is the picture of the 40 19ft. custom dash showing location of switches.
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Hello - Is the dash on the 1941 Barrel the same?
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Re: Pre War Dash and Gauge Panel Research

Postby Don Vogt » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:49 am

I believe so, but you could check with al schinnerer, california classic boats. He is the one who supplied the photo of the 40 barrel back dash. Please post what you find out.
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Re: Pre War Dash and Gauge Panel Research

Postby dougz » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:45 am

I am sure it is the same. I just followed all the wires & it matches up. Reason I was a little confused is I have another switch all the way on the other side of the instruments. I have concluded that it must not be factory...wire not run the same way & goes nowhere. This is a new boat to me so just getting started on the investigation stage.
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Re: Pre War Dash and Gauge Panel Research

Postby Don Vogt » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:13 pm

well, could have been for a bilge pump, auxilliary light or any number of things that may have been added after delivery. If you are restoring, do post some pictures. everyone enjoys seeing what others are up to. good luck.
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Re: Pre War Dash and Gauge Panel Research

Postby Don Ayers » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:48 am

1941 Dash

Don't forget that the entire dash was dark walnut in stain color, 1940-42
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