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Philippine mahogany shortage?
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- steve bunda
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Philippine mahogany shortage?
Word on the street is lumber suppliers running out of Philippine mahogany boat building lumber . This was brought to my attention on , Don D's. site. Have you checked your regional supplier?
Hi steve - I was advised of the same thing by Dave Jerome out in Portland a month or two back. I think he gets his through Edensaw (not sure of spelling) and he said there was none around. I don't know if this is a permanent shortage or what the story is though.
1926 Mullins 16' Outboard Special
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
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Amazing what I have seen being sold as "Philippine Mahogany"
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.
My understanding is that it "Phillipine mahohany" has more or less morphed into a colloquial term referencing and applied to several types of water-resistant hardwoods found in the Phillipines, primary but not alone among these being Meranti. From what I have read, these are very close to but are not actually mahogany, but were coined as such by CC early on as part of a marketing exercise. While these may not genetically be mahogany, it would appear through the history of use of these materials that they exhibit similar performance and the visual characteristics of actual mahogany and have now become more or less indistinguishable from it in the hobby boating community. Lots of people here will know more than I do, so I ask - is this brief summation accurate?
1926 Mullins 16' Outboard Special
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
Philippine mahogany is to wood as red twisters are to Licorice
http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/ ... ippine.htm
http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/ ... ippine.htm
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I do know the answer: There is no such thing.
Bob Smalser, a third generation boatwright in the northwest US, and a frequent contributor to Fine Woodworking, gave me a tutorial on this a few years back. Additionally, I got information from the late Chuck Jones, a military consultant and boater who spent a lot of time in that part of Asia and witnessed lumber harvesting in the area in the 50's and 60's.
A lot of the wood used by Chris Craft was from the tree family Dipterocarpaceae, and the genus Shorea. There are a pile of species contained in this family... nearly 200. They are not mahoganies, but more closely described as a tropical cedar. Their color and density vary fairly widely, but they are not as heavy as either Khaya's or Swietania's, two the true mahoganies. A number of species in this family grow to 250 feet tall.
Here is the wiki entry, although it is brief, given the the number of species:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorea
I've done a fair bit of research on this subject, and it's pretty dry, so I won't bore everyone. I do want to mention one specific species of Shorea: Tanquile, or Shorea Polysperma. Chuck Jones told me of this species, and witnessed it being harvested. He also knew that much of it headed for the US. (Can you say 'Millions of board feet'?) Tanquile as a mature Shorea species was slightly denser than most of that family, and exhibited a deeper red as well. It also exhibited a curious reflective sheen when finished well. (Ring any bells? ) Mature forests were found in the Phillipines particularly, but additional timber was harvested all over Southeast Asia. Mature trees were up to 200 feet tall, and had few flaws in cut lumber.
Tanquile no longer exists for practical purposes. It is on the threatened species list, and despite replanting efforts, it will never be a significant lumber in a couple of lifetimes. The Phillipines no longer export it. It was the King of the Shorea family, and was well used by CC.
IMHO, the two best replacements are of the Khaya genus, (Africa Mahogany), and of course Swietania, which contains the true 'Honduras' mahogany species.
If you want too much info on Khaya, here you go. This thesis gives you more information on Khaya that you would ever want:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/ ... Q33365.pdf
The bottom line is this: Lumberyards look at relative properties before they will classify species absolutely. Many of the Shorea species look like 'mahogany', have great physical properties, and good fungi and rot resistance. So do a number of other
species. There is some amount of Swietania coming out of South America, but the Khaya family is the most available lumber I have seen in the northeast US and Canada. Are we going to run out of the quality we see in CC boats? You bet we are, in fact, we already have. Old growth forests are just that, they take a loooong time to mature, and a forest that takes 1000 years to grow doesn't get replaced.
Bob Smalser, a third generation boatwright in the northwest US, and a frequent contributor to Fine Woodworking, gave me a tutorial on this a few years back. Additionally, I got information from the late Chuck Jones, a military consultant and boater who spent a lot of time in that part of Asia and witnessed lumber harvesting in the area in the 50's and 60's.
A lot of the wood used by Chris Craft was from the tree family Dipterocarpaceae, and the genus Shorea. There are a pile of species contained in this family... nearly 200. They are not mahoganies, but more closely described as a tropical cedar. Their color and density vary fairly widely, but they are not as heavy as either Khaya's or Swietania's, two the true mahoganies. A number of species in this family grow to 250 feet tall.
Here is the wiki entry, although it is brief, given the the number of species:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorea
I've done a fair bit of research on this subject, and it's pretty dry, so I won't bore everyone. I do want to mention one specific species of Shorea: Tanquile, or Shorea Polysperma. Chuck Jones told me of this species, and witnessed it being harvested. He also knew that much of it headed for the US. (Can you say 'Millions of board feet'?) Tanquile as a mature Shorea species was slightly denser than most of that family, and exhibited a deeper red as well. It also exhibited a curious reflective sheen when finished well. (Ring any bells? ) Mature forests were found in the Phillipines particularly, but additional timber was harvested all over Southeast Asia. Mature trees were up to 200 feet tall, and had few flaws in cut lumber.
Tanquile no longer exists for practical purposes. It is on the threatened species list, and despite replanting efforts, it will never be a significant lumber in a couple of lifetimes. The Phillipines no longer export it. It was the King of the Shorea family, and was well used by CC.
IMHO, the two best replacements are of the Khaya genus, (Africa Mahogany), and of course Swietania, which contains the true 'Honduras' mahogany species.
If you want too much info on Khaya, here you go. This thesis gives you more information on Khaya that you would ever want:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/ ... Q33365.pdf
The bottom line is this: Lumberyards look at relative properties before they will classify species absolutely. Many of the Shorea species look like 'mahogany', have great physical properties, and good fungi and rot resistance. So do a number of other
species. There is some amount of Swietania coming out of South America, but the Khaya family is the most available lumber I have seen in the northeast US and Canada. Are we going to run out of the quality we see in CC boats? You bet we are, in fact, we already have. Old growth forests are just that, they take a loooong time to mature, and a forest that takes 1000 years to grow doesn't get replaced.
- maritimeclassics
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So is the mahogany that Chris Craft used really the same stuff I have been buying called philipine mahogany red meranti? I realize that it is not a true mahogany but rather closer the the cedar family but that is what they call it. I got some not to long and it was really nice stuff, some boards 18'' and one 20'' with beautiful ribbon grain to it. I would think that those came from rather large trees. Thx
Family member of Chris Craft founder
Owner of Maritime Classics
http://www.maritimeclassics.com
Ph# 231-486-6148
Restoration Projects:
1936 25' Gar Wood Custom
1947 Ventnor Hydroplane
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Owner of Maritime Classics
http://www.maritimeclassics.com
Ph# 231-486-6148
Restoration Projects:
1936 25' Gar Wood Custom
1947 Ventnor Hydroplane
1957 17' Deluxe Runabout
1948 25' Chris Craft Sportsman Twin
1959 19' Sliver Arrow Hull #75
1929 26' Chris Craft Custom Runabout
1937 25' Chris Craft Custom Runabout
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Red Meranti is one of the Shorea family. From what I have heard, a lot of shorea family can provide good lumber, particularly if it's old growth timber.
Once a lot of these species are sawn into lumber, it can be really difficult for even a learned wood expert to tell the difference. I have read that colors can differ quite widely within the same species, let alone the age of the tree.
The king of the mahoganies has always been said to be Swietenia Macrophylla or Honduras mahogany, Big leaf mahogany, and several other names.
It has been restricted cutting since 2003. The only really good news is that Swietenia is an invasive species. It grows quickly,and survives competition with other flora. Swietenia has been successfully introduced in several Southeast Asian countries as a plantation tree and has even been ruled an invasive species in the Phillipines. With good management, that might spell some relief for those of us who need mahogany for boatbuilding purposes.
Once a lot of these species are sawn into lumber, it can be really difficult for even a learned wood expert to tell the difference. I have read that colors can differ quite widely within the same species, let alone the age of the tree.
The king of the mahoganies has always been said to be Swietenia Macrophylla or Honduras mahogany, Big leaf mahogany, and several other names.
It has been restricted cutting since 2003. The only really good news is that Swietenia is an invasive species. It grows quickly,and survives competition with other flora. Swietenia has been successfully introduced in several Southeast Asian countries as a plantation tree and has even been ruled an invasive species in the Phillipines. With good management, that might spell some relief for those of us who need mahogany for boatbuilding purposes.
- steve bunda
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wood
Lite red and dark red meranti is widely know as Philippine mahogany , may be incorrect as a genesis term,but that is just what it is has been called. Here is a picture of a few planks book matched for a bottom. This is the wood that is no longer being imported to the states. I think it is now going to China and Japan. The whole world wood market is going to see a huge price increase due to shortages. The shortages are a result of many factors including , reduction of exports from Russia, a wood bug in British Columbia reducing Canadian exports , and poor forestry management in the federal forests that reduced the allowable cut. If you haven't noticed home construction lumber is at an all time high.
This meranti ply was sourced from the same mill and arrived in the same shipment. Went through 50 sheets to get at the 4 or 5 sheets of the red stuff. The lighter color I call "paper bag" meranti. You can see the variation in the unfinished scarf joint then the finished planks. On a small boat build, you can strategically create some nice contrasts. Much of the lumber was the lighter variety.
_________________________
1959 22' Sea Skiff (2263)
16 ft. Oughtred Penny Fee
17 ft. Devlin Oarling
1959 22' Sea Skiff (2263)
16 ft. Oughtred Penny Fee
17 ft. Devlin Oarling
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Lauan is still a big export, because it can be plantation grown, and is a fast growing species. Probably one of the biggest differences with today's material is the age of the tree. A lot of CC's material in the 40's and 50's was absolutely premium quality old growth timber. There a lot of it around then too..... not any more. If anyone thinks that North American forests were mismanaged, it doesn't compare with the devastation of old growth rain forest in the third world.
- steve bunda
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- steve bunda
- Posts: 428
- Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:59 pm
- Location: wisconsin
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wood
Hi Tom, PLease bring along a set of frames for one of
those prewar racing runabouts that you make. ..steve
those prewar racing runabouts that you make. ..steve
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