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Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Framing, planking and fairing. Repair, or reconstruction. If it's hull related, you'll find it here.

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:34 pm

Going to try again to post a pic. I am slowly making process fabricating and dry fitting the outer planks. I can't beat the cold weather in time to use adhesives so I am satisfied to dry fit, gap and pre-drill so all will be ready come April. Over the winter I will finish all the side planking, finish bolting the chines to the frames, and get the solid planks prepared for the transom. Hopefully I will soon be able to provide more complete reports of the project. I will put up some pics on the Facebook site, but won't give up on Boat Buzz.

Pic rejected again....sigh. I will post on Facebook
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:31 pm

Another test
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:33 pm

o
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Don Danenberg
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by Don Danenberg » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:11 pm

Your post "Another Test" on Dec 1 2017, DID produce a photo here, boat at the dock.

I even figured out how to change the page from the first page to the 6th page (latest) by scrolling all the way down and changing photo views from 'ascending' to 'descending'.
However, I can't figure out how to view pages 2 thru 5?

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:39 pm

Looks like we are back in the Buzz business. I will have to make sure my photos are <3mb, but everything else seems good. I will try to go back and repost the photos that are missing. I successfully restored a pic on page 5. I will do the others later because I am being bumped off the computer. Here is a test of a pic from last year with side planks dry fit. 1.5mb. My heartfelt thanks to the folks that sorted this out.
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1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:08 pm

test changing the mb's of the pic.... oooooooooooooh...its working.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:43 pm

Here we go with my first substantive post since the new and improved Boat Buzz. I do like the new format.

Although I have showed how I installed the inner bottom and a few outer planks in earlier posts, I thought I would show one installation start to finish and how far I have gotten before winter shut me down. The text with the pics pretty much describe everything. Stbd is at the same stage. I number the planks and the one in this sequence is P,1,5. That means Port,1st from bow, 5th from keel.
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1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

jfrprops
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by jfrprops » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:21 pm

router might be better than the say???? imho John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:19 pm

I would agree, but I am terrible with a router. I will try to make up a bit guide and experiment (on scrap). I have used the saw to clean old seam material and it worked fast and accurately. I do appreciate the advice.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

jfrprops
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by jfrprops » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:04 pm

Robertpaul....that was not advice....as I too am terrible with a router...just seems like how most of the more skilled than us guys do it. I have one of those small circular saws, plunge feature, and it would do that job well as you suggest. I can burn up a router bit and tear out the end of the workpiece with the worst of them. Don't even own a router anymore because of that.
John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:27 pm

Before Buzz was fixed I posted pictures on the Facebook site showing the work I was doing to repair the front window frames that hold the glass. I want to include the story in this record, so I apologize for covering old ground.

The fabrication of the corner joints at the factory employed dado joints, glue and long stainless steel screws. The screws were set in from the sides of the frames by way of a very deep countersink, about 1 1/2 inches. Once fastened the countersink hole was plugged with a plug that was at most 3/8" deep. This left a space between the bottom of the plug and the screw head of about 1". You will see the countersink holes in the following pictures. Surprisingly, these apparent 'water-traps' remained unaffected and clear of any rot or decay.... except that caused by the screw. The major issue was the decay of the screws in the bottom corners (all four; that is 2 per window). The rusting expanded the screw and split the wood. This also lead to a bit of rot, but not much at all. Nonetheless the bottom corners had to be repaired. I did this by cutting back to where the frame was still pristine and gluing on a mahogany blank to replace what was removed. Before going to the pictures (each will have some text explaining what is happening) I will tell you that my source of the mahogany came from an original bottom plank that had some lovely material still present. Although all original bottom planks are being replaced, I would guess that 75% of each plank is reusable in this way. This ensures that the repaired frames will still be made of the exact same mahogany. When I am finally done with this project, I would be pleased to provide material to anyone who can use it this way.... otherwise I will make coffee tables.
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jfrprops
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by jfrprops » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:09 pm

I wonder if I have just forgotten previous post? but stainless screws would not be the originials....I would worry about encapsulating/hiding SS screws....more so though in underwater applications....I have seen stainless screws that rotted the surrounding wood but even worse...appeared fine on the outside only to be compromised in strength by becoming almost hollow inside the screw itself....this is because of oxygen being deprived or some such stainless bugaboos???
Your work is fantastic ....keep at it and keep posting.
John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:48 pm

Hi John. Definitely steel and definitely original. I have kept samples of all fasteners and I can tell you that cc used steel screws in a number of places. I was very surprised when I pulled off the keelsons to find that they were attached to the frames with 5" steel screws. All the gussets were bolted with steel bolts. Anything going through oak was brass or bronze. Here is a picture of gusset bolts which fastened two pieces of structural mahogany. All the bottom screws were brass. If I was in salt or brackish water I would definitely avoid ss, but CC certainly used it.
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1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

jfrprops
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by jfrprops » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:02 pm

agree, steel, but not stainless steel.....they used galvanized some and some plain steel....but not stainless back that far

John in Va
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:36 pm

Sounds right to me , John.

New corners cleaned up a bit and dutchmen in lateral frame piece. I still need to strip,, sand a fair all the pieces. I plan to install the finished windows on the boat later this year. This is a winter 'indoors' project.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:48 pm

It is cold and snowing, so I thought I would show you one more use of steel fasteners by CC in 1937. These are steel screws that I had to cut through in order to remove the third set of frames from the keel at the bow. Most frame sets had bronze bolts through the oak keel but not this one. The screws were driven through the floor and into the keel instead of a bolt. Although impossible to get out because they are so tight in the oak, they were in good condition. I subsequently cut them flush with a hack saw.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:21 pm

Hello. It is winter, and I have no new hull progress to report. Hopefully this coming week will see temperatures moderate a bit and I can get under her and dry fit a few more exterior planks. Until then I thought I would post work I did a few years ago when I replaced all the frames aft of the shaft logs (there are pictures of the finished work on page 1 of this thread). I decided at the time (as mentioned in early posts on this thread) that I had tried to save some frames but decided to replace them all, Including the transom bow. I worried a bit about the strength of even the best Dark Red Meranti (dry) I could find from a quality supplier. Consequently I chose to laminate two pieces with epoxy glue and plane them to the proper thickness. I experimented with the first piece and I could not split it, break it, nor separate the laminations. The transom bow is made up of six laminations and was formed in place to match the curve of the stern. It all worked out fine. So, here are pictures of that process for those who are interested in such things and have nothing else to do on a winter day. Sorry for some duplication from page 1.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:53 pm

I am looking forward to dry fitting more bottom planks this week as it will be mild. However, last year at this time I was removing and repairing or replacing side planks on the port side. I detailed that with lots of pics last year, but I thought I would post some now that show the condition of the frames and battens from the stem back 18' to the stern. This was one plank that needed some edge repair (I showed that as well) but the frames are still sweet. In 1992 I reamed out the original filler between the planks as it was cracked and had fallen out in spots. I cleaned the seams, primed with interlux bright side primer and filled the seams with 5200. You can still see some of the 5200 on the edge of the adjoining planks. It worked great. The paint is also from 1992.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:12 pm

The following pictures show the longest bottom plank I have had to replicate. The original is beside it and is over 18' long. I use high quality 1088 Meranti marine plywood for reasons I outlined before, scarfing to get the length required.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:38 am

Delivery run from the house to the boat for the longest bottom planks on the entire hull, 18'. Still too cold for my old bones to work underneath the cruiser.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:56 pm

I am pulling the plank immediately above the keel on the port side in order to inspect it, the fasteners and to reseat it. It protrudes from the chine by less than 1/16th and I am curious as to why. I have removed about half the fasteners, finding 5 of 7 on the stem to be broken. Similarly, the fasteners into the chine (which is oak) were broken until I got to about 3' aft of the stem. That is where I encountered the first intact screw. I have also put on a few more outer planks on the port side but it is still too cold to work for very long, and certainly too cold for adhesives. Consequently things are just dry fit for now, but it is progressing. The following pics show some of the fasteners from the chine. What is interesting (or not) is that nearer the stem, the screws are very dark where they had broken. I think this indicates a very old failure. By comparison, as I moved aft, the screws would snap under some pressure, and when the head end was extracted, I could see a bit of fresh brass but a lot of tarnished brass, indicating the screw was partially broken or cracked for a long time. Finally, screws started coming out in one piece, squeaking and protesting as they came.
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jfrprops
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by jfrprops » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:25 pm

Wow! you devotion and persistence and craftsmanship continue to amaze me! When you get finished, and you will, that boat will be considerably better than new. It will warm up soon....hang in there and keep posting the great pix.
John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sun May 06, 2018 9:46 am

Health issues in our family have meant that I have had to drop my tools on the restoration of Elude. Next year will mark our 30th anniversary of ownership. She is in her shelter so the elements won't bother her and she is well blocked. I do not know when, or if, I can get back to work on her, but that is just the way it is.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by Captain Nemo » Sun May 06, 2018 12:47 pm

Very sad to hear of your issues, hope they get resolved. We have enjoyed and admired your craftsmanship. Wishing you the best.
Boats are to be made of wood, otherwise, God would have grown fiberglass trees.

jfrprops
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by jfrprops » Sun May 06, 2018 3:05 pm

yes, Like Nemo, I too have really enjoyed your post and marvel at your devotion and workmanship.....best of luck with all issues.
John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by Bilge Rat » Tue May 08, 2018 6:38 am

Sorry to hear about your project detour. Best of luck to you and your family.
1966 Lyman Cruisette 25 foot "Serenity Now!"
1953 Chris Craft Sportsman 22 foot "Summerwind"

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by tkhersom » Wed May 09, 2018 7:39 pm

robertpaul:

You are a GREAT inspiration to all of us cruiser guys! Be well!

Troy
Troy in ANE - President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1958 CC 38' Connie "American Beauty"
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22607/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:19 pm

I appreciated everyone's kind words. Things have been upside down for several months but we are back on track. Family health issues are sorted out. However, about six weeks ago I was advised that due to redevelopment plans by the City of Toronto, everyone had to be off the port lands by the end of August. This has been both disruptive (more so for others) and motivating. I had to decide whether to abandon the project altogether or try to find a new place to continue. My younger daughter is now working full time in Ottawa after completing her degree at the University of Waterloo. Consequently I decided to move Elude to a small town about 45 minutes out of Ottawa, on the Rideau River. Elude will be moved over August 27-28, to her new home at Aylings Marina in Merrickville. Aylings has covered land storage and a long history with wood cruisers. Many are currently housed there. So I am delighted about the prospect of hanging out with hard core cruiser folks, working on our boats and cussin', spittin', and other activities essential to the hobby. HOWEVER, before Elude is to be moved, I decided it was important to finish putting on the bottom planks permanently. By permanently I mean that I would glue/sealant them in place with deck screws and washers until I can replace those with proper fasteners in the same locations. This meant that I could try to get all that done before the deadline.

So.... in the last three weeks I have been working harder than an old man pursuing his hobby should. I have dropped all the outer planks, did a final dress on them (smoothing out any irregularities on the edges) and began reinstalling them. It has not helped that it has been crazy hot this summer, but I am making steady progress. Port is done, and as of yesterday I have 5 of 18 on the stbd side. The heat chased me away yesterday and I am in Ottawa for several days (I need the rest, let me tell you), and will get back to it this coming Friday and Saturday. Then I will temporarily button up the sides and stow everything aboard for the trip. Here are a few pics to show what I have done since mid-July. It is hot, ugly work but strangely rewarding.

I will no longer need my dome shelter, which has withstood all kinds of violent weather short of a tornado for 9 years. It is still in good shape except for the front and back where the zippers finally gave way. If anyone has interest (Peter, are you still around?) I will sell it for $1,000 cdn. I will disassemble it but pick up is the buyer's responsibility. It comes down Aug 25th or so, and Elude will see the sky again. I would have put this on trading dock but I can't seem to access it.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:28 pm

I forgot one bit. Working underneath takes some of the joy out of the job, but small solutions often yield a sense of accomplishment. I tarried over how I was going to make sure I got the planks in accurately with all the goo on them. Initially I tried using a couple of 1/4 bolt in a locator hole drilled through the plank and into the inner bottom where it is against a frame. Look in the middle of the third pic in the previous post and you will see one hanging out. It worked but was time consuming and a mess trying to get the plank lined up. Needed a better way. I decided I would remove the planks from the chines, moving in one row at a time. As each plank came out, I fastened small blocks flush and hard against the next plank, marking both the plank and the block with a sharpie to get the lengthwise position. The edge of the block ensures the plank is in the right location vis the adjoining plank. To my surprise it worked like I knew what I was doing.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by Captain Nemo » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:01 pm

Great to hear that health issues have been sorted out. Sad to hear that you are being forced to pack up and move in the middle of your work. Elude’s new home sounds like a great facility and an excellent place to finish up your project. We all appreciate your dedication. Looking forward to seeing your progress and good luck on the move.
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Boats are to be made of wood, otherwise, God would have grown fiberglass trees.

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