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Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Framing, planking and fairing. Repair, or reconstruction. If it's hull related, you'll find it here.

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robertpaul
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:29 am

To catch up on the last post before I had to down tools, I attach the following pictures. I pulled this plank because I was suspicious it was a tiny bit proud of the chine for some sinister reason. Turns out that was not the case. It probably just worked a bit over the decades and several fasteners near the bow failed. None the less I am glad that I took the time to remove it as I can now be assured that the chine and the plank are in excellent condition. I did find one interesting thing that surprised me a little as you will see in the pics.
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1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:32 pm

All the new bottom planks are attached with plenty of time for the adhesive to cure before the move. Now I will temporarily secure the side planks that I repaired for the trip and stuff the boat with everything at hand. I don't have time to install them permanently before the date of our eviction from the Port of Toronto. It has been pretty hot.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:05 pm

Due to the short notice for our eviction, I concentrated on finishing the bottom... which I did. The side planks are secured for the trip, but are also just about ready for the final install themselves. The transom planks need to be repaired or replaced, but that will be pretty straightforward. Then it will be re-canvassing the deck and roof, stripping, fairing and painting the hull, filling the fastener countersinks in the bottom and fairing/sanding that and paint. Then I will do the brightwork and reassemble the galley and cabin areas. No sweat. I have to do the front windows as well but the frames are done and ready to be put together around the glass. Launch in 2020 for sure.
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1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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Captain Nemo
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by Captain Nemo » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:02 pm

Hope she has a smooth trip, good luck. :)
Boats are to be made of wood, otherwise, God would have grown fiberglass trees.

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by jfrprops » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:48 pm

keep us informed on this great project!

John in Va.
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19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
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1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:42 am

Elude made the trip to Merrickville safely and easily thanks to Balsdon Trucking. Murray Balsdon handles the boats and driving. Karen Balsdon is the person in charge. I took a few pictures of Elude's new digs before she was placed inside and then my camera battery ran out of juice. Aylings Marina actively encourages folks to work on their own boats. The room in the picture dates to 1846 as a mill. It was first used as a boat storage and workshop in 1963. The adjoining part of the building is the actual workshop where they manufacture, among other things, real wood doors. Some of the woodworking machines are pretty old and awesome. I feel like I've ended up in Santa's workshop! I will move all my tools from Toronto (band saw, planer, table saw, etc,) and set them up right beside Elude. So.... all is well that ends well. Check out my roommate's Matthews!
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1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

joanroy
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by joanroy » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:27 am

What a great spot. Your very lucky to find a yard that accommodates wooden cruisers and do it yourselfers. Elude looks beautiful in the light of day. Carry On!

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by Captain Nemo » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:55 am

Glad to see she made the trip without incident. Looks like a good work area. I too, am fortunate to be in an old school, wood boat friendly yard too. They are getting harder and harder to find. Looking forward to more of your great work! :D
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by jfrprops » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:39 am

Great digs....get on it....perfect work space.

John in Va
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:46 am

Thanks guys. It really is a neat place. Like stepping back in time. The town itself is astoundingly beautiful itself. Walking 200 metres from the workshop means crossing the swing bridge over the locks and being at the main intersection. Most of the buildings are limestone and there is a nice park right beside the locks. I am chomping at the bit to get back to work.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:04 pm

New home. Ready to start the final big push to completion and chill after the pressure of the last 8 weeks.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:46 am

By next week I will doing the tedious job of removing the temporary fasteners from the bottom, drilling pilot holes and countersinks, and putting in the permanent fasteners. I figure somewhere around 4,000 of them. Oddly, I am quite excited about the prospect of spending a couple of weeks back under the boat on my creeper. Then I will putty them over, unless it is too cold. Since I do not have any new pictures, I thought I would use the following photos of an intermediate frame that looked great and was solid when probed with an awl. It has two pieces because it spanned the original keelson. The bottom piece was affixed to the inner bottom, and the top piece connected it to the intermediate on the other side of the keelson....I hope that makes sense. The point is, I fully subscribe to the school of thought that says old bottoms should be addressed with great skepticism and in almost all cases, should be replaced in their entirety.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:16 pm

I have spent about 25 joyful hours pulling the temporary deck screws and replacing them with #12 Bugle Head SS screws. 2" for the keel, stem and chines, 2 1/2" for the frames, and #10x2" for the intermediate frames. The process is quite straight forward. Along the keel, stem and chines I pulled and replaced about 5 at a time. For a frame I found I could pull and replace all of them at one go. Once out, I drill the correct pilot for the screw size. This is the step that requires the most care as I don't want to snap the bit. When I worked in my Dad's machine shop during high school (for a princely 50cents/hour) the machinists always told me not o force the tool or bit. "Let the tool do the work" and concentrate on keeping things square. Despite my best efforts I have broken one but managed to get it out ok. I blame having to work upside down in an awkward position rather than ineptitude. Once the pilots are drilled I countersink each hole just enough to ensure that the putty will have some wood to bond to as well as the screw head (which is sufficiently below the surface, of course). Finally I drive the new fastener into the hull. So far I have completed the stem, both chines, and both sides of the keel. Every screw 'bit' hard into good wood. I have also done all the frames and intermediates on the port side to about amidship, although there are several where I missed the end of the frame and one going just to the side of another. I will plug these errors with dowels in the same fashion that CC did when they missed. And they missed more than I have. I decided that to add and some excitement I would switch over to the stbd side for a while, concentrating on the frames and leaving the intermediates until later. In two hours I was able to complete 7 frames which is means about 120 screws out and new ones in. I confess I dawdled a bit but my arms get very tired after a couple of hours and I need to take breaks. fatigue also adds stress when drilling the pilot holes. I should add that I have separate drills for each step in order to avoid changing bits all the time. Here are some pictures.

For some reason I cannot attach the most recent photos! They are only 2.2mb files. The attached photo is 1.5mb. I will try to reduce the size of the pics that prove I really have been at this.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by Captain Nemo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:36 am

That's a lot of "screwing" around, my tendonitis flares up just thinking about all that. Nice work! :)
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:49 pm

I have been busy swapping out the temporary deck screw/washer combination with the permanent fasteners. It has been quite cold this week but it is better than the 40+c I was dealing with before the big move. Here are some pictures of my progress. I have fastened all along the stem and keel, the chines and all the main frames and transom bow. Every screw drew in solidly, even on the section of the chines that are original, and the several original frames amidship. I am very pleased with the result. I have completed about 1/2 of the intermediary frames (the skinny ones between the main frames) and expect to do the rest the week after next when I get back to Ottawa. I figure I am about 70% done this phase of the project. The following pictures show the process and the outcome so far.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:58 pm

And yesterday my neighbour arrived.
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joanroy
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by joanroy » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:17 pm

Nice fit on the bottom. Just out of curiosity, what are you using for goop/caulking and will you apply a barrier coat before you bottom paint! Your new neighbors boat looks pretty darn spiff!

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:23 pm

Hi JR, nice to hear from you again. I used polyurethane sealant/adhesive intended for use below the waterline. It is a DAP product, readily available and less than 1/3 the price of the well known brand. I used A LOT of it. I will concede that it may not create quite as tenacious a bond as the well known brand (curiously folks knock it for that), but it will far exceed the demands placed upon it. I tested its adhesive qualities and it really does bond well to CPES (the inner bottom and inner sides of the outer planks) I am currently thinking that I will try to import some of the Pettit/Sandusky Red Lead Primer to serve as a barrier coat. I used it 30 years ago when I wooded the entire bottom and it is awesome stuff. It may be a problem getting it into Canada though. I am a big fan of paints and primers rather than CPES kind of barriers, although I have a few gallons of that product which I have been using as I said. Sandusky makes a cracker jack bilge paint that is nice to use and contains enough nasty stuff to discourage rot. In the end, keeping the bilge well ventilated and the boat in a covered slip, plus indoor winter storage has always been my practice, and seems to be the most important way to keep these boats going. Plenty of cool big CCs in the buildings now, including my neighbour's, which is superb. No Red and White though.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by joanroy » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:34 pm

Kirby Paints also sells red lead. It’s good stuff, but pretty pricey. Over a hundred a quart. I’m sure the DAP product is fine as a sealant and adhesive along with the thousands of screws holding it together. Kind of a version of a very big 5200 bottom your doing. Never done one myself, but I’m pretty sure Dannenburg recommends doing the full epoxy barrier coat to actually keep water from getting in at all. Basically a no leak/ no swell bottom. I just don’t know if this is applicable in the cruiser bottom world. Maybe Don D will comment? So cool to see a brand new bottom on an old Chris Craft cruiser.

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:10 pm

Lead is banned here so it will be a challenge. I did do the CPES deal on the inner bottom and inside of the outer planks. Didn't have time to do the outer before being tossed out of the Port of Toronto with everyone else. If I can't get the primer I will do the epoxy bit, but it won't be until it warms up in the spring either way. Same with puttying the counter sinks, 3M premium filler says minimum 16c (60f) for both the product and the surface. On the advice of a serious professional restorer I opted for Bugle Head ss fasteners. I used #12 for all the frames, chines, and keel. #10 for the intermediate frames. This has and always will be a fresh water boat. We are getting excited about using it again in 2020 on the Rideau Canal and lakes. I did seriously underestimate the scope of the project (at every stage) and always gave in to mission creep, but it is a good feeling to look at the new bottom from both underneath and inside. I will certainly check out Kirby Paints. Thanks for the tip on that.
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Don Vogt
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by Don Vogt » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:28 pm

You have taken on an incredibly impressive project!
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:29 pm

Port side is almost completely refastened, swapping out temporary screws/washers with permanent screws. Just along the keelson and the butt blocks left. Port is 1/2 done. The last minute nature of our eviction from the Port of Toronto (me and everyone else) meant that I had to leave some intermediate frames unfinished. To get the curve of the hull from the keel to the chine I decided to laminate the frames. Makes it easy to bend them. Consequently I have several that I have to put on the final piece, other wise the screws will protrude. This picture is boring but it is progress. So many screws!
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:31 pm

Stbd done and port about 85%. Long day today. I laminated the remaining port intermediates that could not be done before the move. Seven amidship under the gas tank and engine. I had to wriggle down deep into the bilge to tack the three under the gas tank and it was hard. But it worked out fine and they are all glued and fastened. Then I spent several hours swapping out screws. Almost done. Sorry, Boat Buzz won't accept my phone pictures. I will be back in Merrickville this week and will take pictures with my other camera. By this time next week the entire bottom will be refastened, butt blocks installed, and the seams will be re-gapped where necessary (about 30% of them) and the final caulking done, also only where necessary. The sealant flooded through most of the seams, but some only partially. After that I will use 3m Premium Filler on the fastener countersinks, but I have to wait for spring and warm weather for that. Over the winter I will finish all the side planking and transom planking. I can see the finish line because that stuff will be so easy compared to the bottom. I can't help but mention that my neighbour one boat over (the big Matthews) is doing work that makes me blanch from embarrassment. I will take some pictures of the frames he has constructed as well as the bent frames he has done. Dozens of them. My sawn frame CC is child's play compared to his project. It really is awesome. During transport, one letter of Elude's name came adrift on our stern, and Sean (the guy with the Matthews) couldn't bear it and used a bit of tape to put it right. I love this place.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:53 am

I have finished fastening the new bottom except for the butt blocks. All the intermediate frames are laminated to 1 1/4". I will paint them to match the rest of the bilge when it warms up in the spring. I still have to caulk the seams that did not fully flood through when I put on the planks and of course I have to putty the countersinks..... but the really hard work is done. My plan for the winter is to prepare the planks above the chine (port and stbd) and have them dry fit, drilled, countersunk and ready to install permanently as soon as temperatures permit. I will also permanently install the rest of the side planks on the port side above the waterline. I will also have the transom planks dry fit and ready to install. I have seen other projects where professional restorers used marine plywood as an inner layer. Usually 1/4" I think. Then they laminate mahogany onto that. I can see where it may be easier than bending a 7/8" thick plank, but I am not sure I like the approach nor if I could do it competently. I also have to plane down the new chines where they are proud of the new bottom. At any rate I still have lots to do. Here are pics from yesterday just after I finished.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by joanroy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:17 pm

My keel has always had a slight bit of a list as well. Its solid and well bolted and hasn’t changed in 11 years so I don’t mess with it. Could have come off the assembly line like that. The transom planks are a tough bend. It’s more of a curve than it looks. When we did mine we left the ends long so we could attach ratchet straps on each end. Started fastening in the middle, lots of screws, pulled both ends a little at a time and finished fastening as we went. Worked out fine and has remained nice a tight. Of course we had to replace a lot of the white oak transom frames as well to get the good fastening. Looking Good!

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:57 pm

Thanks JR. The transom does have a significant curve. That is why I laminated my transom bow in place. Did you steam first? I know mahogany doesn't steam very well, but it does take the edge off. Did you use DRM, African, Genuine?
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by joanroy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:40 pm

Did the bottom third on the Joan Roy to just a plank above the exhaust ports. Had the whole cockpit gutted at the time for new fuel tanks, exhaust, wireing, deck, covering boards etc. We were able to access the framing from the inside. Because we left the top planks on, we cut and scarfed and sistered most frames down to the bottom. Didn’t use steam but we did use a lot of #12 bronze fasteners and bedded each plank with a good dose of 5200. Thru bolted the ends with bronze bolts before we released the straps. Didn’t want it to pop. The ratchet straps were heavy duty. The kind you use to strap heavy equipment down. Not the little cheap ones. As far a material goes, I can’t really remember what species/ mahogany we used, but it was beautiful stuff. Nice tight straight grain. We have a major supplier we do business with in our antique home restoration business and so we’re fortunate to have access to high quality wood. Comparing to what you’ve done so far, there’s no doubt in my mind you’ll figure it out.

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by robertpaul » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:27 am

JR. You are not going to believe this. I barely do. Check out this picture I took when Elude was first placed in her new location. Note the ladder-like frame leaning against the wall. I just checked with the boatyard and was told it was used several years ago to steam bend transom planks for a 1938 33' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser. The boat itself is in service again and is at a restoration shop/Marina about a 200 metre walk from where Elude is. The radius is the same as Elude's transom! I am going to ask if I can use it. Whether for steam bending or laminating, I haven't decided. Funny how life works sometimes.
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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by joanroy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:30 pm

Wow, that is a rather unbelievable coincidence. I guess by some devine CC intervention, you were meant to move into that spot. Should make messin around with the transom planks a little easier.

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Re: Honey, have you finished fixing Elude yet? 1937 35' Cruiser

Post by Bilge Rat » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:21 am

A real life example of serendipity!
1966 Lyman Cruisette 25 foot "Serenity Now!"
1953 Chris Craft Sportsman 22 foot "Summerwind"

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