Storage Cradle or Trailer?

kcupido · Post by **kcupido** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:16 pm

Fellow members,
The countdown is on for the spring launch. Yet I am looking ahead when I will be putting my Connie away for the winter for the first time here at home.
She will be pulled from the water and put to rest on a ??? Trouble is, I can't seem to find any details (design, measurements etc.)of the traveling cradle that she originally was shipped on.
But was also wondering if it was worth the price to have a trailer built/bought for her. Not that she would ever be towed far, but with a trailer she could be stored on my property. (And where to find such a dealer?)
I want something secure, at the same time want to be able to do any repairs etc. needed to be carried out from year to year.
She is a 1962, 36 foot Constellation. I know size matters, er, this time

Any thoughts?
Thanks for your attention.
Keith

57 chris · Post by **57 chris** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:15 pm

Hi Keith,
Since travel is not the main objective, I wouldn't spend the ton of cash required to purchase a custom made trailer required for a boat your size. if you aren't the carpentry type I would suggest hiring a local builder to construct a cradle for your boat. I was faced with the same situation and blessed with the ability I constructed my own storage cradle. My suggestion is to interview a few local contractors in your area and see if any of them are up to the task.
Let me know your results and your desicion on which way to go. If I wasn't so far away I'd build one for you.

Craig

Wood Commander · Post by **Wood Commander** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:23 pm

The shipping cradles weren't really meant for long term storage, but many of them were used this way anyway. I grew up in a cold winter climate where we pulled our old Commander criser out of the water every fall and put her on the cradle for every winter storage season. When we launched every spring we not only let her swell up again, but Dad wouldn't run her anywhere except to the dock for at least a week to let her get her shape back again.

The shipping cradle mainly had athwartship bunks under the rear cabin main bulkhead, under the largest front cabin bulkhead and another place amidships, usually slightly aft of the middle. These bulkheads were of course fastened to the bottom frames in that position. So the cradle held the boat under the frames that had the most additional structure attached across the beam to the hullsides and cabins.

But this leaves quite a bit of overhang usually starting at the point where the shafts emerge out of the hull aft, and a great deal of the length of the foredeck up forward.
Aft can often be where the fuel tanks are and quite a bit of weight is left hanging. Up front is slightly better but in addition to the fresh water tank, sometimes can still leave too much structure unsupported.

So you want to support your boat under these same bulkheads, the keel at at least these same points, at the chines at several points along the length of the hull, and give support to at the very least, the keel fore and aft (you usually find the chines supported at the very aft corners of the hull). And longer bunk- type supports under the engines is also an extremely good idea.

One of my dreams is to someday build a trailer for my 1953 35' Commander. I continue to brainstorm a design in my head. I have obtained the drawings for my boat from The Mariner's Museum that include the lines drawings, tonnage and offsets and a rear- on view showing the engine/main bedlog/stringer locations to help guide my design.

One of the things that is going to make it much more complicated for me is that I would very much like to be able to set the boat down and/or pick her up again and take off. Since she weighs close to 12,000 lbs., this is of course a pretty involved undertaking. I want to have this ability after having dealt with different marinas over the years and paying the charges to have the boat hauled, lifted, transported and stored in their yard. And then it is stuck there until you pay them again to move it. So I want to try for more independance.

I have studied the hydraulic marina yard trailers and other trailers too. I have even taken many pictures and made videos of them moving boats with the yard trailers to study.

One of my design ideas uses a "U" shaped frame with a removable cross member in at least the rear position. Screw jacks just like the adjustable "poppet" stands that boats are stored on would handle the chine and stringer bunk supports and probably do the (slow!) lifting. I wouldn't be in a big hurry. If it took all day moving around the boat and taking even turns on the jack screws, so be it.
The trouble with a U shaped trailer is what to do with the axles, you might have to put double wheels on each side of both side framerails. That adds much to the cost, weight and complexity of the trailer.

I have also been looking at running very large cam- follower bearing assemblies on a large, heavy, strong, angle iron track on each side of the trailer frame angled down in back with a heavy cross carriage for the front support. One of the yard trailers at my marina works partially on this principal in addition to some hydraulic action.

Either way, there would be add on/bolt- in additional supports in the previously mentioned areas to provide all of the necessary support.

If you just want a regualr trailer, you can usually find somebody locally or at least close by that does that kind of work.

I'm familiar with Loadmaster Trailers in Port Clinton, Ohio and Quality Trailers all of the way out here on the West Coast in Bellingham, WA. Quality actually is a litle more hard- core, making several models of lifting/yard trailers in addition to more normal boat trailers.

Al Benton · Post by **Al Benton** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:34 pm

I have a couple of photos of a 1965, 37' Connie being relocated on a low-boy trailer that may be interesting to see.

Bill Basler · Post by **Bill Basler** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:55 pm

Keith, if you do need a trailer fabricated, I would highly...very highly recommend Phoenix Trailers out of Ellsworth, Michigan. They're not too far from you, just south of Lake Charlevoix.

I had a custom trailer made for my barrelback. At the time, my boat was up at Steve Van Dam's place in Boyne City. Their engineers drove out, took measurements of my hull, went back to their shop, loaded everything into CAD, and emailed me all of the CAD wireframes of the trailer. I gave them my input, and they accommodated every suggestion. As soon as it gets warmer here, I'll take some photos.

They have done a lot of big trailers including triple and quad axle rigs, including fifth wheel and gooseneck if desired.

Honestly though, even an inexpensive trailer for a boat your size will set you back some cash. Blocking may be the way to go.

I can't say enough about Phoenix though. They were great to work with.

drrot · Post by **drrot** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:40 am

Keith here are the cradle dimensions for 1962

Wood Commander · Post by **Wood Commander** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:44 pm

In my previous post about the cradle and trailer issues and designs, I made a mistake.

The aft bulkhead that the aft cradle support crosspiece would be under is usually located between the aft end of the engine room and the fuel tank space at the stern. This is about the point where the prop shafts would start emerging through the bottom of the boat, not under the aft main cabin bulkhead.

The aft main cabin bulkhead would then be where the middle (actually more aft of the middle) crosspiece support would be.

That makes a little difference!

kcupido · Post by **kcupido** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:58 pm

Thanks for the interest!
I really liked the pic's of the low-boy flat bed trailer and the big boat being towed, Al. Originally, I was going to buy a 1958, 36' Connie that HAD to be trailered home. Before I went to look at her I had a dilly of a time trying to find a shipper that would/could do that. Never did find someone! In the end, she was way too much work and money for me... She would of been a beauty, though.
I will look into a trailer. Phoenix Trailers aren't far from me and at least I could find out a ball park figure.
Bret, thanks for the info and drrot for the specs! I see the shipping cradle will have to be improved somewhat to use safely year after year.
This is basically what I was looking for... blocking it up scares me a little... a permanent structure made specifically for my boat.

Keith

57 chris · Post by **57 chris** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:32 pm

Jim, You are the man! where did you come up with the specs for a cradle???

Craig

drrot · Post by **drrot** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:36 am

It's from an old CC Service manual.

Al Benton · Post by **Al Benton** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:23 pm

Bret, I found a couple of other photos of the above boat that show some cantilever mechanical jacks this guy built to jack the 37 footer up for the trailer to roll between. The problem I see with this is the entire weight of the boat is on the 4 jacks at the chines until she's blocked. The trailer owner had hydrolic cantilever jacks that could have been used if he would have arrived in time. You can see them on the back of the empty trailer.

Also note that the dual wheels were removed when it was backed between the jacks and installed before he hit the road.

Al

kcupido · Post by **kcupido** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:56 am

Does anyone know when CC used the red colour as the accent colour around the cruisers? This boat that Al posted is only the second cruiser I've seen with this colour accent. I love my blue, but the red is very interesting.

Also, I'm trying to post a few pics that I have of the first boat I went to look at. This old beauty was not properly installed on her low-boy transport and fell off her mooring while in transit.
This damage and her need for a complete refit made me leave her behind

I think she may still be for sale if anyone is ambitious enough to take on this project.

Al Benton · Post by **Al Benton** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:48 am

Keith,
Although the red is interesting and looks like it belongs, the feature stripe high on the topsides was blue originally. The waterline stripe was black according to The Essential Guide. The steel rub rail belongs on the half-round trim and not where it is on this boat. There's some funky teak trim around the transom that doesn't belong. It's probably covering some damage.

Al

rpccc43 · Post by **rpccc43** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:04 pm

Al,

FYI, my 43' Connie had the steel rub rail both on the half round trim and in the center of the sheer stripe as shown on this boat. We have a '64 48' Connie with both sets of steel rails here at the river as well. Perhaps they were an option? I have removed mine for the time being as I am presently "borrowing" a color scheme from another year and model because I like it better (at risk of being called a hedonist).

Randman

Wood Commander · Post by **Wood Commander** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:16 pm

I have seen that maroon trim color on 1960's Constellations before and I definately think that it is a Chris Craft color.

Where was that 1950's 38' Bullnose Constellation located at? In the pictures it doesn't look too badly damaged. Of course in pictures and in real life can be quite different! Anyway, I think those are good looking boats, as are the 1960's Connies such as in the other pictures.

Al, thanks for those pictures. Is that the Conny that the lady from the motorcycle shop in Arkansas or somewhere had been on the list talking about purchasing and having it moved? Then they also bought a double cabin Owens as well? Has anybody heard from them lately?

Those jacks were interesting. But did you notice how the chine plank- to- the- next plank seam had opened up from the rear jack to the transom while being jacked up? In the pictures of it loaded on the trailer, you can see that that same seam has closed back again at the transom, but almost looks like it has opened up from the aft area and running farther forward. And even though the trailer support is almost as good as it can be, minus extra supports under the engine stringers/bedlogs, it looks as though the chine is bending in a line falling away from the point where the trailer screw jack/poppit stand is supporting it.

It just shows how much weight and force is at work here.

Wood Commander · Post by **Wood Commander** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:13 am

OK, you can't show me more than one picture before I start getting confused. I tried to go back on my memory and that was a mistake.

The chine bending (slight) that I was talking about is actually in the first picture in the second set of pictures of the 1960's Conny. And it is still on the jacks and not on the trailer yet.

kcupido · Post by **kcupido** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:27 am

Bret...
The Bullnose 1956 38' Connie is a few miles from you. It now sits at a ship yard in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I found her on the net and fell in love. I found other cruisers but kept going back to her. I had found out that she was well loved up to 6 or 7 years ago when she was sold to her present owner.
When I finally made my mind up to go see her... 10 hours of driving later, my heart sank

within minutes of inspecting her.
Besides the bottom damage, her transom was rotted half way up and had rot in several other places on her hull. One engine wasn't turning over, the other seemed to. It was too bad... unfortunately.
My budget, and severe lack of knowledge in regards to old woodies held me back.
I'll tell you this much... If I win the lottery before she turns to firewood, I'm going back to get her!

Al Benton · Post by **Al Benton** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:49 pm

Keith, too bad about the condition of that '56, 38' Connie. They are great looking cruisers. Hopefully someone can save her soon.

Bret, I had thought of mentioning that gap and the obvious sag at the transom while she was on just 4 jacks. The trailer jacks supported the chine a little better with 3 on each side. They did add some support blocking under the stringers at the engines before they left. As I recall the previous owner told the mover to add support right at the transom.

This is the one that went from my neighborhood to Hot Springs Arkansas. She did add an Owens to her collection. Haven't heard from her for a while.

Al

Storage Cradle or Trailer?

Storage Cradle or Trailer?

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