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1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

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SportNWood
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1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:46 pm

Does anyone know what hull #'s were delivered with the Burnt Orange Deck Seams? I have been told the early production 1940 boats were delivered with the orange seams but I am not sure if anyone knows what hull numbers this included or if it was noted on the Hull Cards. Any additional information that you can share would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Niel

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Matt Smith
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by Matt Smith » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:55 am

Not only did they come with Orange Seams, but an apple green boot stripe, pigskin interior and many have a stunning marble banjo sterring wheel. I am pretty sure its pre 1940. But smarter folks than I know all this. I think Katzs Marina is in the process of restoring one. Seth has a passion for this particular one as well, so you may want to check them out. One of my favorites as well.
1948 25' Chris Craft Sportsman
1958 Chris-Craft 17' Cavalier
1937 16' Special Racer
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1968 11' Crab Skiff
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SportNWood
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:38 am

Good morning Matt,
Thank you for your reply! Yes, Seth is restoring one that has a different type of windshield than the usual Bugatti style. I have spoken with the nice folks at Katz's Marina and they said they can find another one and restore it for me. However, a very wise man has posted articles suggesting that it's usually smarter to buy a boat that's already been done. I may decide to talk to Seth about finding me one, but I wanted to see if maybe there was someone who might have one that they are willing to pass on to a new caretaker for less than I could have one restored for. Katz's does wonderful work and their boats come with a year warranty and I can get exactly what I want, so there are benefits to going that direction. Please keep your eyes open for me.
Thank you again for your reply.

Niel

joanroy
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by joanroy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:45 am

I’m curious about Orange Seams. Did CC actually color the seams orange, or did the seams just turn orange over time. Old varnish over old seam compound naturally turns orangish.

SportNWood
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:49 am

Good morning Joanroy,
There were a few 19' foot Chris-Craft Customs in the late 1939, early 1940 production which came from the factory with orange deck seams and a green boot stripe and tan pig skin interiors. They are in my opinion, the most elegant of the "Barrel Back" runabouts.
Niel

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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by joanroy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:16 am

Interesting, but you’d have to wonder if the orange on a small number of boats was intentional, or just a lucky varnish mistake. A lot of the old amber varnishes have a pretty orange tone and could have turned the white seam compound orange. I’d check the hull card records at the Mariners Museum to figure out how many were produced and to see if any of these option/details are listed as original. Good Luck with your search.

jim g
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by jim g » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:44 am

The orange deck seams was on purpose. The Mariners Museum at one time (probably still does) had a list of the hull numbers that were shipped from the factory with them.

SportNWood
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:02 am

Jim,
I will check with the Mariner's Museum. Thank you for the head's up!

jim g
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by jim g » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:10 am

The 17' footers had them also so make sure you ask for the length you want. I have in the past seen some with dark green but I think that was either a 22 or 23 foot triple.

SportNWood
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:20 am

Jim,
I will definitely specify the 19' length Custom runabout, as the 23' and 27' boats are so rare and are a bit pricey.
Thank you,
Niel

DeanS29
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by DeanS29 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:39 pm

Neil,
Last night saw on Seattle Craigslist 1940 19' Barrel newly "restored" orange deck seams, marble banjo wheel, pigskin upholstery, modern power with original available and...the seller was motivated. No price was listed. Best of luck!

SportNWood
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:53 pm

Dean,
Thank you! I looked and see the boat (Hull #48706) it looks beautiful. Exactly what I'm looking for with the exception that is the engine had been replaced with modern power. I have a call into the seller.
I'll keep you posted on what I learn.
Thank you for the heads up!
Niel

Greg Wallace
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by Greg Wallace » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:30 am

17 and 19 footers with orange deck seems and pigskin interior had orange boot stripes to match. 23 and 27 footers and (I believe 25 sportsman) had green deck seems, emerald green leather and green boot stripe. I can tell you for sure that seem compound (caulk) was colored green (on 23's and presumably the other "green" applications. I can't speak from experience on the 17 and 19 "orange" There were exceptions documented during the run due to special order. There were at least 2 of the 23's produced with the orange treatment. Others were done more traditionally with white seams per owner request. There was even a 27 barrel produced with "Pea" green canvas decks and other ugly "Options". That one still exists but not as originally created.
Greg Wallace 23 Custom 22166 former Chris-Craft dealer Russells Point, Oh.

SportNWood
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:56 pm

I received a reply from Jerry, the person who posted the orange deck seam 1940 19' Custom on Craig's List.
The Hull number is #48706. The boat now has modern power and was "Restored not Rebuilt in 2010-2011 by Bruce Gibson in Gig Harbor, WA"
Is anyone familiar with Bruce Gibson and his restoration work?
Thank you,
Niel

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Brian Robinson
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by Brian Robinson » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:01 pm

113 1940 model 19-foot Customs were produced, all but six had the orange deck seams/orange boot top combo. The other six were special ordered with white. Apparently its feast or famine when these are for sale. But if you find any 1940 model there is a good chance it was orange originally even if it was not restored that way. The seam compound was orange, not just varnished over.
-Brian
1923 Hackercraft 23' Dolphin #03
1938 Gar Wood 22' Streamliner #6256 Empress
1952 Chris~Craft 19' Racing Runabout #363 Thunderstruck
Robinson Restoration, LLC (760) 468-1009

SportNWood
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:08 pm

Brian,
Thank you for the additional information on the 1940 19' Custom Runabouts with orange deck seams.

Niel

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Don Vogt
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by Don Vogt » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:15 pm

Is there some reason you are focused on 1940. My impression is that the orange striping, etc. was not limited to 1940 if that is the reason, but perhaps someone can give us a definitive answer on that score?
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"

SportNWood
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:28 pm

Good afternoon Don,
Yes, I understand that some late 1939 boats may have also had the orange seams as well. I my opinion, the 1940 19' Custom with the orange deck seams and boot stripe, Bugatti windshield, the sharper bow (than the 1941 and later models) along with the tan leather pigskin interior and the Blue gages (rather than the single gage cluster from 1939) and the larger Chris-Craft "M" 130hp motor all combine to make the most desirable "Barrel Back".
I have been an admirer of these boats for more than a decade and with the investment necessary to purchase one, I want to find one with as many of the features that I like.
I appreciate so much all of the input I have received from the Woody Boat community!
Thank you,

Niel

joanroy
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by joanroy » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:35 pm

Still curious about the orange seams. How did CC make the compound orange and how would that be done on a restoration? Any photos or old advertising shots? I would imagine it looks pretty cool. I’ve never ever seen it before.

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Don Vogt
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by Don Vogt » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:55 pm

thanks, I certainly understand why the 39 /40 is to be preferred over the 41/42 because of windshield and bow treatment. I do believe the 39 had individual gauges, mainly silver, (but not sure when blue background came in).( edit: I think this is true only later. I gather now that the 39 started out with the 6 panel gauge. ) there were larger engines in 39 too but not sure which ones. I think pigskin was available in '39 but dont quote me. Unfortunately the barrelback.com web site that don ayers put up with all the details is not around now, but i do believe he did one or more articles in the brass bell that went into some of this. brian robinson is pretty well up on this too. maybe he can add more.

Joanroy, it is a bit academic about deck seam caulking unless you are a subscriber to the "god knows" line of thought. the correct restoration procedure is of course to varnish the boat after the seam compound is installed. normally the seams are then hand painted white over the varnish to overcome the yellow effect of the varnish on the underlying caulk. however, it can just as easily be painted orange if that is what is required, and no one but you and the restorer (and god of course, but he wont tell) know what is underneath!
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"

SportNWood
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by SportNWood » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:59 pm

Here are a couple of photo of an orange deck seam boat
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joanroy
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by joanroy » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:20 pm

Wow! The orange looks really great. I don’t want to split hairs guys, but do you suppose the orange look is something that happen later during early first restorations of these old boats. Maybe just a really cool look that caught on? Is the orange mentioned in any of the advertisements or on the hull cards for those years?

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Don Vogt
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by Don Vogt » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:28 pm

No it was for real. but i gather there was some marketing resistance and it may have been discontinued at some pt? I was just looking in the archive. there is a color picture of one taken at a midwest lake in national geographic around 1940. If i can find it i will post.
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"

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Don Vogt
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by Don Vogt » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:02 pm

can't seem to find it immediately. also a topic under "research related." pre war dash and gauge research. some discussion about the different gauges. seems to suggest the 19 went to separate gauges sometime in the later 1939 model year? also seems to suggest maybe blue was before tan or silver gauge facing? not clear. and i should not speak merely from memory as that is dangerous.
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"

jim g
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by jim g » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:53 pm

1939 6 gauge panel
1940 blue face individual gauges
1941 silver face individual gauges
1942 black face individual gauges. Most people don't realize this as there were very few 42 made.

The above list is the basic time frame that the gauges change.

Keep in mind with Chris Craft the year dates are model years not the actual year the boat was made. Also Chris Craft would use up the parts in the supply line. So there might be several early 1940 model year that have the 6 panel gauge or some late 39's with blue face gauges.

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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by maritimeclassics » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:31 am

Here is the best example of a 1940 19' Custom Runabout that I know of. We have been taking care of this boat for many years. I worked on this boat with the late Dave Jerome back in the late 90's. The boat retains its original decks with the factory writing still on the planks on the undersides of the decks. Like Brian R. pointed out there were only 113 with the orange decks strips and all 1940 model year. I would think only about 1/2 are still around and most have the deck strips changed to white over the years so it is rare to see one with burnt orange. From the factory all of the finishing was done (about 4-5 coats of varnish) and then the deck seams were filled last with a thick putty that was colored burnt orange. Shown below is memorandum #622 that shows the change by hull number of the first 17' and 19' with orange deck strips.
Scan_20181213.png
IMG_20161025_133251286_HDR.jpg
IMG_20161025_133326345.jpg
IMG_20170707_111221738_HDR.jpg
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Restoration Projects:
1936 25' Gar Wood Custom
1947 Ventnor Hydroplane
1957 17' Deluxe Runabout
1948 25' Chris Craft Sportsman Twin
1959 19' Sliver Arrow Hull #75
1929 26' Chris Craft Custom Runabout
1937 25' Chris Craft Custom Runabout

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Don Vogt
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by Don Vogt » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:18 am

Thanks, Mike, excellent information and photos. do you know when cc went from the 5 spoke to 4 spoke banjo steering wheel on the custom? I believe at least in '39 it was still a 5 spoke?
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"

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maritimeclassics
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by maritimeclassics » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:27 am

I don't. I looked through all of my memorandums from 1939 and 40 but didn't see it documented anywhere. Chris Craft got there steering wheels for a couple of manufactures over the years so it may be hard to find that out for sure.
Family member of Chris Craft founder
Owner of Maritime Classics
http://www.maritimeclassics.com
Ph# 231-486-6148

Restoration Projects:
1936 25' Gar Wood Custom
1947 Ventnor Hydroplane
1957 17' Deluxe Runabout
1948 25' Chris Craft Sportsman Twin
1959 19' Sliver Arrow Hull #75
1929 26' Chris Craft Custom Runabout
1937 25' Chris Craft Custom Runabout

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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by joanroy » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:48 am

Thanks Guys! I’m always amazed and humbled by the CC info and advice here on The Buzz. Great Stuff!

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Don Vogt
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Re: 1940 19' Chris-Craft Custom: Orange Deck Seams

Post by Don Vogt » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:50 pm

You contribute a lot too! thx.
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"

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